Hippogriff is level 5 but costs as level 9

[Starfox]

The Hippogriff and Hippogriff Dreadmount from the AV are level 5 critters, yet as mount they cost as if they were level 9 critters. This makes them just as expensive as the level 9 magic item Ebony Fly, which emulates a Hippogriff but is much easier to take around with you.

Is this deliberate and balanced, or an error?

 

[Baumi]

It's deliberate since it allows the rider to fly (a big advantage), while the level of the monster is more about damage, defenses and special powers ... flight for a monster is more about the role (skirmisher, lurker, etc.) than xp.

The comparison to the Ebony Fly doesn't fit since the Ebony Fly is only about flight itself, while the Hippogriff gives it's rider a defense bonus, is much tougher and has powerful attacks.

 

[Starfox]

The comparison to the Ebony Fly doesn't fit since the Ebony Fly is only about flight itself, while the Hippogriff gives it's rider a defense bonus, is much tougher and has powerful attacks.

The Ebony Fly does grant the defense bonus (without the need of a feat). While it has low hit points, it can be given a load of temporary hit points that escalate with level unlike the Hipogriff. But most importantly there are no consequences to its loss - a dead hippogriff is lost, a dead Ebony Fly can be summoned again tomorrow.

As you can see, I find the Ebony Fly remarkable to say the least, as could be seen from an earlier post along a similar vein.

 

[Tuft]

The Ebony Fly does grant the defense bonus (without the need of a feat). While it has low hit points, it can be given a load of temporary hit points that escalate with level unlike the Hipogriff. But most importantly there are no consequences to its loss - a dead hippogriff is lost, a dead Ebony Fly can be summoned again tomorrow.

As you can see, I find the Ebony Fly remarkable to say the least, as could be seen from an earlier post along a similar vein.

Feels like some other early flyer is left out; either edited out or not put into the game yet (held back as a future guaranteed seller?). That would mean that the Ebony fly would not stand out as much. See the Butterfly Sandals in AV, and this discussion: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-rules/257647-major-problem-favored-soul.html

 

[Baumi]

The Ebony Fly does grant the defense bonus (without the need of a feat). While it has low hit points, it can be given a load of temporary hit points that escalate with level unlike the Hipogriff. But most importantly there are no consequences to its loss - a dead hippogriff is lost, a dead Ebony Fly can be summoned again tomorrow.

As you can see, I find the Ebony Fly remarkable to say the least, as could be seen from an earlier post along a similar vein.

You are totally right about the defense, I have overlooked that they automatically gain the equivalent of the mounted combat feat. But I still think that Hippogiffs are far better in combat than the Fly's...
- Temporary Hitpoints for the Fly cost you a Healing Surge and go away after the first encounter .. so the Hippogriff is tougher
- The Attacks are much better on the Hippogriffs, and while Attacking with the Fly cost only a minor Action, the Hippogriffs have much more effect and damage.
- The Fly has no Basic Attacks so OA's or Charges might be a Problem

I think they are both quite good, but it simply depend on what you want .. A uncomplicated Mount for Movement (the Fly) or something that can fight on your side but hard to take to some places (Dungeons, Houses, etc.).

The strange thing is that IMHO a Hippogriff is better for a Wizard then a Fighter because a Fighter don't need Help in Close Combat while a Wizard would be happy if they can do a few good Melee Attacks.

 

[Starfox]

Flying Mounted Combat

First, to concede another point to Baumi, the Fly also costs a daily item use - a limited resource.

So, we actually used a Hippogriff in combat last session (or rather, a giant eagle reskinned as a hippogriff). And some issues immediately came up. The rider was a storm sorceress, and immediately issues came up; can she use powers that affect movement? Case in point Spark Form (link will only work if you have a DDI subscription). The problem was this part:

Effect: Before the attack, you shift your speed + 2. You can move through occupied squares during the shift, as long as you end in an unoccupied square.

Can you use this effect while mounted?

 

[radja]

yes, you can use it while mounted. result: you're not mounted any longer. being mounted doesn't change your spreed, you just use a move-action to command your mount to move its speed with you on it. ofcourse, you could just not shift, and stay mounted that way.

 

[Baumi]

I'm not sure about RAW, but it is certainly intended to work for the mount or mounted combat is very useless with all the movement powers..

The way mounts are implemented, they are more an extension of the character than it's own entity.

 

[DracoSuave]

The Hippogriff and Hippogriff Dreadmount from the AV are level 5 critters, yet as mount they cost as if they were level 9 critters. This makes them just as expensive as the level 9 magic item Ebony Fly, which emulates a Hippogriff but is much easier to take around with you.

Is this deliberate and balanced, or an error?

Level of player resource and level of monster are two different yardsticks measuring two different things. Level of player resource is to calibrate the appropriate power when in the hands of a party. Level of monster is to calibrate the appropriate challenge when set against a party. Sometimes something can be powerful in one role, but weak in the other. So you get level disparity.

In the case of this:

Hippogriffs are less portable than Ebony Fly, so cannot be higher level.
Ebony Flies cost an item daily to use, so cannot be higher level.

So, if all else is the same, they'd have to be the same level.

 

[On Puget Sound]

4E seems to treat mounts as equipment, for the most part. Whether movement powers affect you and the mount or only you (forcing you to dismount to use them) is not clear RAW, probably should affect your mount RAI,....

and variable RAS (Rules As Simulation). A movement power that works by inspiring you to greater efforts might work on your Unicorn but probably not on your Clockwork Steed. One that works by causing plants and terrain in the area to cooperate with your movement and help you along should help with any non-flying mount (and could be extended to include favorable breezes for flyers). One that briefly changes your form, like Spark Form? Teleport powers?

In my game movement powers will affect both mount and rider pending official clarification.