HELP! Avenger issue
- Thread starter CovertOps
- Start date
Particle_Man
Explorer
I see Avengers as Ninja. They flip around, kill people, and are impossible to hit. They even simulate the "One Ninja" phenomenon, as they try to get an opponent away from the rest of the opponents (and thus their allies) and have their own little duel off to the side, while the rest of the party has their mass battle.
And I would suggest to the OP that you simply let the Avenger be awesome. If the player gets his jollies from being unhittable, then in the initial part of the combat have some monsters occasionally rush the Avenger, and describe their series of misses, etc. Then the player will have fun. Then have the elite controller say "Ignore him, you fools! Go after their Wizard/Cleric!" or "Protect me from this maniac, loyal minions!" as you see fit.
And I would suggest to the OP that you simply let the Avenger be awesome. If the player gets his jollies from being unhittable, then in the initial part of the combat have some monsters occasionally rush the Avenger, and describe their series of misses, etc. Then the player will have fun. Then have the elite controller say "Ignore him, you fools! Go after their Wizard/Cleric!" or "Protect me from this maniac, loyal minions!" as you see fit.
Nail
First Post
<chuckle>Are you attempting to use the outcome of a mass-battle to define the 4e D&D Armour Class of a player character in a particular armor? (Seriously?)
Huh. You are. Oooooookay then.
You must realize that entire Ph.D. theses have been written on the outcomes of Bannockburn or of Stirling. Attempting to boil all of that down into a statement like "...therefore, PCs in Light armor should have better ACs than PCs in heavy armor" is, quite frankly, madness. Plenty fun, but silly all the same.
Instead, consider the differences within their context: the 4e D&D game. Think about "how it plays", how balanced it is, and how much it evokes the standard fantasy setting.
Should a hero in heavy plate armor be damaged more easily than someone in light armor?
Flipguarder
First Post
"Oh no, that man has a knife....and all I'm wearing is plate armor! Yikes!!!"
When the guy next to you has a divine aura that comes directly from their god to protect them and the knife is 5 feet long, bleeding, and held by a Death Titan then yes that would be the correct response.
Flipguarder
First Post
Honestly I see very hard problems with allowing one feat to get whatever armor you want, at least among defenders, most defenders have either plate or very good reasons why they don't want it. Maybe I'm just being naive.
But plate isnt the pure awesomeness that it was in 3.X, yeah.
But plate isnt the pure awesomeness that it was in 3.X, yeah.
In the real world, yes. D&D is not trying to simulate the real world, so none of this applies. If you're looking for accurate representations of medieval warfare, D&D 4E is not remotely the game for you, even before you add in the wizards and dragons and such.
What about a guy in light/no armor with a high Dex who is blessed with the divine protection of a wrathful god? Pretty sure there weren't any of those at Bannockburn.
90% of the time the heavy armor guy will have a better AC. What we're looking at here is an edge case where a player has deliberately gimped his ability to do his primary job to give himself a higher AC. The reason Avengers get a bigger AC boost when wearing light armor is simply because they aren't expected to max out their Dexterity. Even then, at most levels the difference is going to be miniscule: compare a 1st-level ACvenger (10 base + 3 hide armor + 3 armor of faith + 5 Dex = 21) to a paladin (10 base + 8 plate armor + 2 heavy shield = 20). Now remember that the paladin expended exactly zero resources to get that AC, while the avenger has blown both of his starting feats and 3/4 of his starting attribute points on an ability score that doesn't benefit him at all.
Also, bear in mind that the only light-armor wearers who can match or even slightly exceed heavy armor ACs are those who have some form of innate magical defense: swordmage warding, armor of faith, etc. Show me a rogue who can, without magic, equal the AC of a fighter without magic, and then maybe there'll be a verisimilitude problem.
Admin here. I've removed your excessively rude comment. You know, it's okay if people don't agree with you; even then, you have a responsibility to be polite if you're going to be posting here. That goes for everyone, of course.
I now return you to the post. Please email me if this is at all unclear. ~ Piratecat
The crux of the situation is in the statement above. You miss the very basic premise of the point of AC in the debate: You need to be hit in a way that actually hurts you to be damaged. AC is not avoiding damage as such, it's avoiding being hit with a damaging blow. Armor deflects/lessens blows that connect with the person. Mobility avoids the actual hits on the person. Both lessen damage to the person attacked in differing ways but can be equally or more effective, depending on circumstances.
Terrain, tactics and mobility can make up for a lack of heavy armor in some cases. As a game mechanic, they streamlined the whole thing in a very solid way. Do we really need weapon vs. armor charts back? Or a chart adjusting attack bonus based on the opponent's Dex? I sure don't.
It also includes magic. The Avenger power is called "Shield of Faith", not "Jimmy's invisible, non-held, adamantine great shield". The swordmage power is a magical warding which is improved if the swordmage has a hand free to maintain the stronger shielding. This is a heck of a lot easier than the charts listed above.
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Flipguarder
First Post
Just a point of order, that's unnecessarily harsh.
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