How did you play back in the day? - forked from Q's Leveling Comparisons

When you play(ed) 1e or earlier did you mostly:


But he can't be, because he's responding to Quasqueton's analysis of treasure/levelling speed in the AD&D modules. Quasq is talking about the module period of AD&D. Ariosto's point about mega-dungeons being normative is true only of OD&D and Holmes BD&D. So he's definitely wrong and I pronounce Hussar to have won the internet.

Hrm.

First off, Q's first module is KotB, which is definitely not an AD&D module.

Second, in order to reach the conclusion that Ariosto is "definately wrong" for the AD&D module period, you would need to sample only people who were playing during said period.

Third, you would have to include a poll entry for those who played a game that included a megadungeon (or more), but was not centered around the same, because these people would also fall within Ariosto's stated norm.

While I think that megadungeons were a norm, I think that Hussar is correct that they were not the norm. They were not the norm in my own AD&D 1e experience.

But even demonstrating that they were not the only norm doesn't necessarily disprove Ariosto's actual statements -- except insofar as he might have believed his own experiences were/are more typical than they actually were/are.



RC
 

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Hrm.

First off, Q's first module is KotB, which is definitely not an AD&D module.

Oddly, despite what many people think, B2 was not the first published TSR module. It post-dates the G series and the D series. S1, S2, and T1 were all released before B2. So if the question is what were people playing when AD&D modules were in print, then citing the use of B2 in the examples as contraevidence seems to me to be incorrect.
 

Oddly, despite what many people think, B2 was not the first published TSR module. It post-dates the G series and the D series. S1, S2, and T1 were all released before B2. So if the question is what were people playing when AD&D modules were in print, then citing the use of B2 in the examples as contraevidence seems to me to be incorrect.

Also, B1 came before B2. ;)
 

Sandbox campaign. I used TSR modules & module-series where it made sense from a campaign perspective, but the campaign wasn't beholden to them.
 

First off, Q's first module is KotB, which is definitely not an AD&D module.
Wait a sec... how can you say that? It came in my blue-box D&D set back in 1979/80. Urm....

OK -- officially it was for Basic D&D, but it says on the cover "With minor modifications, it is also suitable for user with ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS(tm)." B-)

We only played it with AD&D though, and same with the other gamers we met in highschool a year later.

I wonder, who played B2 with AD&D rules and who played it with D&D rules?
 


An underlying -- perhaps the motivating -- issue in that other thread was the perception in some quarters that characters in 3E gain levels faster than in 1E. Quasqueton's analysis, within the scope of what it covers, suggests that level gains (within that covered context) should be about the same until roughly what would be "name" level in AD&D.

So, whence the perception? There is anecdotal evidence that many DMs skimped on treasure XP, which became standard, "by the book" practice in 2E. In the absence of an adequate replacement, that certainly would tend (perhaps by intent) to slow advancement!

The question of how much potential treasure was likely to be secured by a given group of characters was raised. I don't think that is likely to be a big issue in consideration of most modules, but it could be in a different kind of situation -- such as the dungeon as originally conceived and presented.

That's a situation pretty well designed not to get "cleaned out" by any particular group of characters. As a consequence, it does not lend itself to calculations on that basis (double or triple XP needed to "level up" a party being a good start in my experience, more depending on actual traffic). Moreover, returns per hour of play time may well be lower.

Rapid or slow, a rate involves a component of time. That could be measured in "modules" if they are employed, but to assume that (as opposed, say, to game sessions) as the common measure should have some warrant.

I did not claim to know whether (much less that) most people -- or even any of the people in question, the ones claiming swifter advancement early in 3E -- were playing mainly in scenarios after that model.

(Silly me, I think it might be more illuminating to ask them about their practices rather than getting into vain speculation and assumptions!)

Someone started to claim that the underworld of many ways was not a significant part of the game as Gygax designed it. I can see how the concept might be obscure if one were informed only by select later texts, rather than by the seminal work (even at a remove via oral tradition). It seemed perfectly clear to me, and apparently to plenty of others in the 1970s, though, and nothing I have encountered since of Mr. Gygax's writings suggests to me that this was a misunderstanding.

Then someone else, who seems quite often to indulge in creating false dichotomies, took up the notion that the presence of multi-level dungeons in the original campaign concept was somehow incompatible with the presence of other elements.

Absurdity aside, all that was quite irrelevant to the topic of that thread.

The relevance here is that I find it a bit tiresome to be misrepresented by others. I do not very much like being set up personally as a straw man. I can speak for myself, and trust that those others have enough to say on their own account.

Quasqueton compared 1E and 3E characters in 1E modules. That is not the same as comparing
-- 1E and 3E characters in 3E modules;
-- 1E characters in 1E modules and 3E characters in 3E modules; or
-- characters of any rules-set in a much less linear scenario than offered in most modules, with characters in the latter.

Size certainly can contribute to non-linearity, but a huge complex is not necessary. A dungeon map is pretty handy for analysis, providing a "flow chart" of the sort one might make for any scenario in which players have choices of taking different directions (in events, even if all acts take place spatially within a single little room).
 

I think the comments made about when you started playing, what was your age, and what modules were available are important points regarding what your adventures were like.

Our group started around 79. We were unusual (as far as I can tell) because we were in our early 20s when we started (vs. those who start as young or pre teens). We play keep on borderlands, followed by a homebrew mega-dungeon, which lead to a world and serial module play. It probably took only two years to leave the mega-dungeon behind as the major play style.

Our group didn't have much connection with other D&D players, so our interpretation of the books was limited to our own experience. Much of what was written, was inferred by us, that the mega-dungeon was one normal style of play. We quickly discoverd that while wandering the mega-dungeon was fun, we wanted more.

We are a much more aligned to a 'story telling adventure gaming' format in the last two decades. Lets no one worry, in all the story telling, role playing focus, we have never truly left our kill stuff take their stuff roots. :)

Does age matter in the type of play? Did it depend on what was available in modules? I don't know. We were fairly isolated then, so we were not influenced by what was going on in the industry at the time, except for what was selling cheaply at our FLGS.

Complex question - not easy to articulate that in a poll.
 

In 1980, I think the shops in my town stocked but a baker's dozen of modules from TSR. Most of those were for high levels. Indeed, the G-D-Q "adventure path" was 7 of the 13 modules. Judges Guild offered more, and perhaps retailers in other places carried more. Dark Tower had been excellent (and also high level), but too many JG products were disappointing -- to me, any rate -- to encourage ordering any sight unseen.

With our high frequency and duration of play sessions in those days, my gang could easily have exhausted the TSR modules ... if we'd had the interest and cash. As it was, someone was bound to have played in any given module before. Some RPGA players today think nothing of going through the same scenario repeatedly, but back then and there it did not even cross our minds.

Graph paper was cheap and plentiful enough. We had no production constraints limiting a dungeon to two levels, each fitting on an 8.5" x 11" sheet, with a key that could be typeset (with space for illustrations) in a signature or two -- although our keys for some bigger dungeons might, as they also did not need to be so verbose.

A campaign (as the term was understood back then) of only moderate scope needed a score or more places of interest anyway. Some of those of course would be quite small -- perhaps but a single barrow mound, a simple fort or a shallow den of caves. Those naturally must be numerous in inverse proportion to their re-use. Others might be vast; the Dwarfs, of course (or so it seemed), must have at least one mountain fastness like unto Moria!

Not always, but often, the campaign's first delving became an "underworld" even of such scope as recommended in the original D&D books. The instructions therein to prepare at least six levels before the first adventure seem to me infelicitous, if one is inclined to procrastinate on the basis that "it's not ready yet".

That seemed not to be a problem for us youngsters! We could hardly help but sketch so much by lunchtime, imaginations racing ahead of pencils. Dungeon doors could open onto whole new worlds (often inspired by the books and magazines we devoured at similarly astounding pace).

One thing I noticed (or rather found confirmed) later, when I acquired more modules, was how very prosaic the commercial scenarios seemed next to our homespun wonders. To have taken them as prescriptive would have led to a very different sort of game than what the little brown books, the blue (Holmes) book and a smattering of The Dragon had inspired. Those three pages in Supplement I on "Tricks and Traps" and "Monstrous Tricks and Combination Monsters" were probably the equal of several reams of fairly typical later material.
 

In 1980, I think the shops in my town stocked but a baker's dozen of modules from TSR. Most of those were for high levels. Indeed, the G-D-Q "adventure path" was 7 of the 13 modules. Judges Guild offered more, and perhaps retailers in other places carried more. Dark Tower had been excellent (and also high level), but too many JG products were disappointing -- to me, any rate -- to encourage ordering any sight unseen.

In 1980, the following modules were available from TSR: A1, B1, B2, C1, C2, D1-3, G1-3, Q1, S1-3, T1, and X1. A pile more would be published in 1981. In fact, by 1982, almost all of the modules that people regard as "classic" had been put on the market.
 

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