D&D 4E Disarm in 4E

Disarm - attack
special: perform any other attack you can legally do, if it reduces the target to 0 or fewer HPs and they die, they instead become disarmed.

Decapitating Blow - attack
special: perform any other attack you can legally do, if it reduces the target to 0 or fewer HPs and they die, their head falls off and can now be used as a bowling ball.

I guess saying "BECAUSE IT ISN'T" implies the above isnt a 4e rule...
well maybe it isnt.."technically" but it is only very SLIGHTLY a house rule.

The permission to skin our powers and adjust the final resolution (currenly only mentioned are dead and unconcious, should be explicitly opened up to other appropriate effects).
 

log in or register to remove this ad

At-will disarming also implies that you can toss someones weapon away about 50% of the time you try it (hit roll). Does this sound appropriate to you? Way too easy in my opinion, unless the foe is a minion, which means he is a lot less skilled than you.

Also, soon he will say that it should target reflex defense, because it would be odd if it targeted AC. It gets worse and worse on this path.

In most cases a successful disarm means defeat (in movies, in real life, in books), unless it is the hero who momentarily loses his weapon. That is easily described as stunned or weakened.
 

At-will disarming also implies that you can toss someones weapon away about 50% of the time you try it (hit roll). Does this sound appropriate to you? Way too easy in my opinion, unless the foe is a minion, which means he is a lot less skilled than you.

Also, soon he will say that it should target reflex defense, because it would be odd if it targeted AC. It gets worse and worse on this path.

In most cases a successful disarm means defeat (in movies, in real life, in books), unless it is the hero who momentarily loses his weapon. That is easily described as stunned or weakened.

Minions dont have to be less skilled just tons less lucky... somethings shouldn't happen unless a character is all out of luck (minions sort of count as that way by default).

In real life you have to completely outclass your enemy for it to really have a likely chance of working (I dont mean realiably even then)... err its probably a lot safer to main or kill somebody. If they are after realistic -- calculate the odds of an instant kill --- umm so lets not do realistic that sounds un fun.

If you want to envision the enemy not being wounded by the disarm allow that last attacks "damage" to be negated it was a disarm after all (but remember they will likely be demoralized and afraid... so figure they do indeed have zero hitpoints).
 
Last edited:

I fully agree. I just wanted to point out that minions might be those kinds of opponents that you see disarmed in movies etc. But proper "villains" often lose their weapon only when the fight is almost over (0hp fits this fine).
 

The real point where simulationism is lost in D&D is that you can hit someone in the face with a battleaxe three times, and they don't die. In real life, it is possible to disarm an opponent, but it's a great deal harder than just killing them. You can't say that it's unrealistic to forbid people to try disarming enemies, because the whole hitpoints system is an obstraction to start with. It's the reason disarming and sundering was so powerful in previous editions - because effects that can disable an opponent by means other than reducing them to 0 hitpoints are way more effective.
 

The real point where simulationism is lost in D&D is that you can hit someone in the face with a battleaxe three times, and they don't die.

If my players are attacked by a battle axe attack 3 times... I have them
describe how luck and desparate last second skill and the various factors incorporated in hit points (read the definititon of hitpoints from version 1 through 4 for ideas) reduce and minimize those attacks...
The neat part of letting the player describe this part is you get to involve them out of turn (some players ask me to do it... others love having defensive narrative permission - I only rarely have to adjust there description)

In real life, it is possible to disarm an opponent, but it's a great deal harder than just killing them. You can't say that it's unrealistic to forbid people to try disarming enemies, because the whole hitpoints system is an obstraction to start with. It's the reason disarming and sundering was so powerful in previous editions - because effects that can disable an opponent by means other than reducing them to 0 hitpoints are way more effective.

Mechanics which semi permanently nerf somebody who arent nearly out of luck is not a good idea or a good simulation and never was.

Basically the house rule using zero hit points in the permanent disarm are using something quite like an extension of intimidate rule (and very likely with its flaws removed.)

Instead of tying it to a too easily front-loaded/over-optimized skill it is tied to a normal attack and instead of using the bloodied threshold it is tied to being within reach of being out of the battle by a single attack. (those maybe very close to the same point )

The intimidation mechanics limitation of your target being bloodied is nearly mechanically the same as being within one heroic attack of being defeated. (but maybe only for enemies of the same level and there are important exceptions). And those exceptions are good reasons to use an attack for the disarm check and use the zero hit points threshold.

Presentation is all the difference.
So the jackie chan pacifist pc describes his attacks as him defending himself in way that humiliate and exhaust his enemies turning there attacks against him in to attacks against there allies and themself etc all working at exhausting his enemies when the dm describes them like they are frazzled tired or seriously confused he makes an attack and describes it as a form of disarming if it works and causes sufficient hitpoint loss they lose there weapon... if it fails they dont lose there weapon but next round another such attack is very likely to work and his enemies are likely demoralized and afraid so at disarmed zero hitpoints they run away.. or he might have had there weapon bounce back from one of there attacks and clonk them in the head and they just fall unconcious. If the player suspects npcs as being minions (for instance the described exhausting defensive attack against one results in the target knocking themself out) he changes a bit and describes a nice flamboyant disarm even though the next one doesnt already seem bloodied aka ready for disarming... and sure enough the minions weapon gets stuck in the cieling...

ummm hell yeah we can do disarms with 4e rules...
 



Also, soon he will say that it should target reflex defense, because it would be odd if it targeted AC. It gets worse and worse on this path.

I can see it being an attack vs. Reflex, AC, Fortitude, or something like attack skill +10, with bonuses or penalites applied as appropriate.
 

That doesn't answer the question.

But... have you looked at the Kuo-Toa Marauder?

Yes but this is a passive ability in that it only occurs if the Kuo-Tau Marauder is attacked in melee and missed by that attack.

If Kuo-Toa Marauder is successful with Sticky Shield the targets weapon drops in the targets hex where it can be recovered with a minor action.

In essence this power could cost a melee attacker a minor action in the event of an unsuccessful melee attack against the Kuo-Toa Marauder.

Furthermore if the attacker had not yet used there minor action for the turn they could pickup and rearm themselves before there turn ended, effectively making Sticky Shield an excercise in needless die rolling.

That being said the Sticky Shield was a good find and serves as an excellent starting point for house ruling a disarm attacks
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top