New Characters - Advice on building?

[Dr_Sage]

Hi!

I have been toying with the idea of making a "smart/agile warrior" for a future campaign and I came down to 2 main possibilities, both humans:

A) Warlord or B)Rogue.


A) For the Warlord I have Hector from the Troy movie as an inspiration, meaning a warrior that can actually lead and influence a party of adventurers.
He could interact well with NPCs, be an example for his conrades and still go one on one with the orc when needed.
A character that is athletic and versalile, the prototype of action-adventure movie.

B) For the Rogue I would like to be one that could go one on one with a bad guy, being less dependant of flanking. Certanly not a thief, but I would go with an agent/spy/hunter background.
An athlete by the very nature, and someone not afraid of jumping, swimming, climbing etc.
Nightwing (from DC Comics) is my main inspiration for this one, along with a ton of fantasy action heroes from books and movies.
Another approach is gambit from X-men, and countless japanese characters from anime that "appear just in time behind the main villain and do what needs to be done".

Will probably go with a Brutal Scoundrel build or some mixed stuff.

Lets get started!


Ideas, builds, feats etc?

 

[Turtlejay]

I've not seen troy, but I have an affinity for Eladrin Warlords with Greatspears. +3 prof is nice, and leading from the front is also nice if you can stand behind your tank.

There is a good PP for Warlords who use reach weapons, too, the Longarm Marshal. I'm sure there is more broken stuff out there though.

Jay

 

[teachamath]

Good idea but rogue is not a good choice due to needing sneak attack damage. Unless you can give yourself combat advantage each round somehow you should go another route. My advice is to go avenger, pursuing avenger fits your idea and my idea of nightwing (I mean Batman now.)

 

[Klaus]

For agile warrior, you can go:
- Rogue + Ruthless Ruffian + Belt of the Brawler = unarmed strike Sneak Attack
- Eladrin Fighter Tempest + Fey Blades + 2 Short Swords

For war leader:
- Eladrin Fighter + Greatspear + Warlord Multiclass
- Dragonborn + Fighter/Warlord + tratnyr/shield

 

[Saeviomagy]

Rogues need CA.

Rogues have limited ways of gaining CA without either
a) hiding at range.
b) having a buddy flank with them.

So, while rogues are, without a doubt, the sneakiest characters in the entire game, they're not really great for solo fighting.

Rangers, on the other hand, are less sneaky, but only rely on CA to give them a bit of a boost to hit. A high str/high dex ranger can be the effective solo character that you want.

If you have PHB2, then the avenger also sounds like it's right up your ally. Less sneaky, more implacable dark stranger focussed on his foe.

 

[DracoSuave]

Rogues need CA.

Rogues have limited ways of gaining CA without either
a) hiding at range.
b) having a buddy flank with them.

Fortunately, those limited ways are called 'Most of their powers.'

Rogues have no problem with CA.

So, while rogues are, without a doubt, the sneakiest characters in the entire game, they're not really great for solo fighting.

This IS mostly true, but there are exceptional builds.

Rangers, on the other hand, are less sneaky, but only rely on CA to give them a bit of a boost to hit. A high str/high dex ranger can be the effective solo character that you want.

Sadly, they are made of paper compared to other characters. Yes, they can put out high damage, but they don't have the defenses to match, say, an Avenger.

If you have PHB2, then the avenger also sounds like it's right up your ally. Less sneaky, more implacable dark stranger focussed on his foe.

Avengers aren't exactly 'less' sneaky, they just don't milk Combat Advantage. But they shift around more than rogues, phase through walls, turn invisible...

Yeah.

Well, Shadow Assassins are rogue-sneaky, actually.


Actually, if you're trying to replicate Batman, Avenger is -exactly- what you want. Stealth? Yes. Zipping around the field? Yes. An unstoppable force that will destoy his opposition. Yes.

Go Warlord tho. They're seriously awesome.

 

[Turtlejay]

Not sure what you mean by less sneaky. Since the Stealth skill is Dex based, a Ranger with good Dex, trained in Stealth, is a sneaky character. He will be in light armor (high dex) so either no penalty or -1 to rolls.

The only thing that makes them less sneaky is some of the rogue powers that augment his ability to maintain stealth, mostly in combat situations.

Also, have you thought about Monk? When was the last time you saw batman stab someone? He punches and kicks dudes all the time. As a bonus, they rely on Dex, so Stealth away, and they get the full discipline actions so they have interesting movement options (kind of like you'd expect from a monk, or batman).

Just call him a rogue. He is mechanically a monk, but behaves as a spy/assasin/rogue/whatever. No more alignment restrictions on monks.

Seriously though, go Warlord. Eladrin Tactical Warlord. Do it.

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

A hybrid Avenger/Artificer would be a -great- way to bring Batman to your game table.

The World's Greatest Inquisitive.

 

[Dr_Sage]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Just 3 considerations:

1- I am already playing a fighter, so I would like to stay away from them for now, unless the DM asks me to.

2 - LOL fellows, I said Nightwing, not Batman. hehehe Someone else started the Batman idea.

3 - I was not very clear regarding CA: what I meant was not that I would not flank/spank. What I meant was that (when possible) I would like to be able to to sneak/tumble/whatever and engage the evil boss behind his minion lines. I would like that could be a viable option.
I agree that a Ranger would be the best we consider min-max, but I would like to try the rogue for that.

***********************

From what I could underestand, artfull dodgers seem to be a lot of fun and absurdly effective (+5 / +9 AC against OA level 1 so you can flank at will? Yes please!), but for this guy I would like a sturdier kind of character. Just for flavor realy.


For the Human or Elf Brutal Scoundrel Rogue I was wondering something like:

S - 16 (athletic)
C - 10 (or 12 fo the survival)
D - 18 (no comments needed)
I - 10
W - 12 (or 10) (Flavor, very perceptive)
C - 10 (or 12) (Again just flavor)


Skills:

- Athletics
- Acrobatics
- Insight
- Perception
- Streetwise (or intimidate)
- Thievery

Feats:
- Toughness
- Weapon Expertise (Light B)

Powers:

w- Riposte Strike
w - Piercing Strike
w- Deft Strike (human at-will)

e- Dazing Strike (seems to fit the theme and keeps the CA going)

d- Easy Target (I like the theme, but seems to be the only daily power that - if the enemy saves in the next turn - you get zero benefit from it, not shure. Blinding Barrage is sexy, but out of my main theme I think).

Background: Detective

Future stuff:

u - Tumble
e - Nasty Backswing

 

[Mort_Q]

A hybrid Avenger/Artificer would be a -great- way to bring Batman to your game table.

The World's Greatest Inquisitive.

Is there an Artificer Hybrid class update somewhere that I missed?