Setting with no humans (or other fantasy races)

[pawsplay]

A matter of opinion, I guess. I find races like the Sindarin to be very 'elf-like' right down to their name (which is derived from the language spoken by Tolkien's own elves).

Dual-brained alchemists who play fourth dimensional chess and live on rugged mesas?

 

[Herobizkit]

Every time I've considered running a campaign devoid of humans, at least one person has said that they wouldn't be playing in that game. Some of them almost never played humans, either- they just wanted to have that as an option.

Not having that option was a deal-breaker.

That's silly, if you ask me. If they never play humans, what does it matter if they're there or not?

I've run an all-elf campaign before. I decided that, hey, if most of the players want to be Elves, why not start them in Elf Country? Their main adversaries were other elves, dwarves, and humanoids (who had their own Orcs of Thar-style state). It was wonderful, and no one cared whether or not they saw a human.

To have "no humans" a deal-breaker, well... I wonder if they're railing more against the denial of option rather than humans themselves.

And Danny... so help me, I'm gonna find me a car and find you and we can play the games everyone else won't.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That's silly, if you ask me. If they never play humans, what does it matter if they're there or not?

Because its not "never," its "almost never." In fact, a couple of them usually start by designing their PCs as human, but then change race after exploring mechanical and fluff options.

And Danny... so help me, I'm gonna find me a car and find you and we can play the games everyone else won't.

 

[jdrakeh]

Dual-brained alchemists who play fourth dimensional chess and live on rugged mesas?

Rather than argue about this at length, I refer you to one of your own posts from years past conceding that Talislanta does, indeed, contain Elves (although, I think you're talking about Muses therein).

 

[RangerWickett]

Sindarans, not Sindarin. They were pretty original, actually.

But Cymrilians, the pointy-eared green-skinned city-dwelling magocracy is fairly high-elf-ish. The Kasmirans, being short, greedy, and fond of traps, are dwarf-like, but they are completely non-warrior-oriented, and don't drink or sing wild songs. Honestly they're a pretty flagrant Jewish cliche.

 

[jdrakeh]

But Cymrilians, the pointy-eared green-skinned city-dwelling magocracy is fairly high-elf-ish.

Thanks. I guess I had these Elves confused with the Syndarans (it's that name that sets off bells in my head, I guess). It has been a while since I have had anything to do with Talislanta. The "NO ELVES!" thing always annoyed me though because, despite that claim, it was absolutely teeming with re-skinned fantasy races from other sources (including Elves). There were variations, yes, which is why I keep referencing re-skinning, but there were a lot of similarities, too.

 

[pawsplay]

Kasmirans are atheists, which would make them a whole race of Silas Marners, not Jews.

As for Cymrilians, they have some high-elfish traits but:

- Are not immortal.
- Are not particularly dextrous.
- Not nature oriented. At all. Actually more like Edwardian England in many respects.
- Not fey.
- Rarely use bows.
- Are not exceptionally beautiful.

But they do practice wizardry, use longswords, and have pointy ears, which makes them pointy-eared Melniboneans. Or tall, green gnomes. Your call. Might as well call them re-skinned humans, right?

So even though many elven archetypes are somewhat represented in Talislanta there are not, actually, elves. You can not point to any race in Talislanta and say, "If you normally play an elf, this is what you should play in Talislanta."

 

[Elphilm]

The first Dark Sun proposal to the TSR management had no traditional fantasy races.

I'd love to know what races were in the first draft.

 

[pawsplay]

Rather than argue about this at length, I refer you to one of your own posts from years past conceding that Talislanta does, indeed, contain Elves (although, I think you're talking about Muses therein).

What I said was this:

The point isn't that elves are evil, but that the setting doesn't simply copy from other fantasy games. Muses also, for instance, are telepathic and don't use bows.

in response to this:

I was always annoyed by the no elves sales pitch. Yes, Talislanta has no race called elves, it just has pointy eared frivolous forest dwellers. But they have butterfly wings. See, wings! Those are TOTALLY not elves.

Hence, I am not agreeing that Talislanta has elves. I am stating it does not have elves, because Muses are not elves. In addition to having wings, they are also telepathic and do not use bows. Therefore, they are not "elves" except by a very light threshold by which we discover that D&D gnomes are actually elves, too.

 

[jdrakeh]

Hence, I am not agreeing that Talislanta has elves.

Then you probably shouldn't have used the word "elves" to describe one of Talislanta's elf-like races. You can try to spin that any way you like, but the context of the cited conversation doesn't change the fact that you used the word in question to refer to an elf-like race of Talislanta. Again, your words, as quoted by. . . you:

The point isn't that elves are evil. . .

It might have been a slip of the tongue. That's fair. Quoting yourself saying something and then try to tell me you didn't say it, though? That's ridiculous. At any rate, though, as I said — our 'conversation' on this topic is done.