DCC #8 Mysteries of the Drow (CLOSED)

[Dragonwriter]

wish they never invented ECL... but heres an example of something i was thinking on

You have a Drow Priestess lvl 4(ECL 6), that I could see having a bodyguard say a Drow Fighter lvl 2(ECL4) looking at it this way all the numbers match but--

A lvl 4 priest couldn't get leadership due to not having a feat she would need to be lvl6 (ECL8) then take the feat she gets and make it Leadership

the need for a feat chumps the ECL in this way

But was looking over DMG after Voadam's post of lvl adjustment from MM
It has differences for monsters with one HD and those with multiple

It says that a monster with Hit Dice 1 or less, a level adjustment, and class levels adds its class levels, Hit Die, and level adjustment together when referring to table 3-2

Playing it this way makes a little sense A 1st lvl drow rogue is ECL 4 has all the drow abilities to make up the +2 LA, 1d6(Rogue)1st lvl, and 1d8 HD(humaniod)

And would have 6,000xp needing 10,000 for lvl five.

But in the MM it says a drow with PC class lvls adds +1 to it's CR why is that and not +2??

HM <---- is confused

Allow me to attempt an explanation... (This is from what I see as the RAW standpoint. I'm not perfect, so I could miss something...)

Drow only have a +2 Level Adjustment, with no racial Hit Dice, so their ECL is only +2, rather than +3. (So the 1st-level Drow Rogue would be ECL 3, not 4. No HD to add in.)

Leadership makes no mention of ECL for determining a Leadership score, only character level. Therefore, you should only consider the character level when trying to figure what level a cohort is. And since we are treating LA as extra levels in this game, if the cohort has LA, he/she/it should be reduced in level by an equal amount.

So S@squ@tach's Drow Cleric 7 (with score of 7 + CHA mod) would be able to attract a 5th-level Cohort. If the cohort is to be Drow, then it should be level 3. Or you let him figure LA as character levels (for this game only, I would suggest... it gets ridiculous otherwise). Or you can try using LA as it was written (ugh)... And the final option would be to disallow Leadership. Option 2 would be the most powerful, and maybe useful for all of us, seeing as this is likely to be a rather lethal game.

I hope this was helpful and didn't just confuse people more....

(And CR has nothing to do with it... That's only for determining their toughness as monsters, not PCs. Though the explanation is the Drow stat bonuses and special abilities make them tougher (which is why a Drow Warrior 1 is CR 1, not 1/2).)

 

[s@squ@tch]

I'm not set on using leadership, as I think it breaks when it involves LA races.

Using my drow priestess as an example, it makes more logical sense that a 7th level cleric would have a drow cohort of 5th level, not 3rd level. A 7th level drow character is supposed to be the same (in power) as a 9th level pc of a LA+0 race. (which is the whole point of the LA system.)

As a human/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-elf cleric of 9th level would have a cohort of 7th level.

 

[Dragonwriter]

I'm not set on using leadership, as I think it breaks when it involves LA races.

Using my drow priestess as an example, it makes more logical sense that a 7th level cleric would have a drow cohort of 5th level, not 3rd level. A 7th level drow character is supposed to be the same (in power) as a 9th level pc of a LA+0 race. (which is the whole point of the LA system.)

As a human/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-elf cleric of 9th level would have a cohort of 7th level.

Yeah, I think it would make more sense if the cohort was 5th level. I was just saying what the RAW seems to be (it is a bit fuzzy, though). One more reason I consider Leadership to be a bit of a headache...

Of course, it's all up to HolyMan's interpretation, though, not mine. I was just tossing out an explanation. Either way it goes, we'll be glad to have you in the party S@squ@tch!

 

[s@squ@tch]

BTW, what world/pantheon is this set in, or is it homebrew? Is this a world where portals are present?

 

[Voadam]

I'm not set on using leadership, as I think it breaks when it involves LA races.

Using my drow priestess as an example, it makes more logical sense that a 7th level cleric would have a drow cohort of 5th level, not 3rd level. A 7th level drow character is supposed to be the same (in power) as a 9th level pc of a LA+0 race. (which is the whole point of the LA system.)

As a human/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-elf cleric of 9th level would have a cohort of 7th level.

Two issues I see, the leadership character's level and the cohorts level.

As a 7th level character you get a 5th level cohort. Drow have a +2 LA that applies when considering their level as a cohort.

You can choose an evil LA +0 cohort of 5th level or a 3rd level +2 LA cohort. For balance it doesn't matter what race your cohort is, just that the choices balance out in terms of power using LA as a balancer.

I think you are arguing that for leadership you should use ECL instead of character level and be treated as CL 9 and get a cohort of 7th level which would be a level 5 drow, same as any other level 9 character could get.

I think by RAW you count as character level and not ECL for your leadership, the same way you would for any other feat power such as the DC and number of uses of stunning fist.

I think this is considered part of the balancing of the LA race powers you get (SR, better stats, etc.). An LA character generally does worse than an LA 0 character on level based powers unless their racial advantages bump them up in that area.

From that perspective it makes sense for a lower level drow to have a weaker cohort than a higher level elf of the same ECL.

 

[HolyMan]

Drow only have a +2 Level Adjustment, with no racial Hit Dice, so their ECL is only +2, rather than +3. (So the 1st-level Drow Rogue would be ECL 3, not 4. No HD to add in.)

Thank you for that I wasn't sure if it was all 1 HD or just drow that had a special rule

Leadership makes no mention of ECL for determining a Leadership score, only character level. Therefore, you should only consider the character level when trying to figure what level a cohort is. And since we are treating LA as extra levels in this game, if the cohort has LA, he/she/it should be reduced in level by an equal amount.

Agreed and for fluff you wouldn't be seeing a drow have a cohort to close in power to themselves.

So S@squ@tach's Drow Cleric 7 (with score of 7 + CHA mod) would be able to attract a 5th-level Cohort. If the cohort is to be Drow, then it should be level 3. Or you let him figure LA as character levels (for this game only, I would suggest... it gets ridiculous otherwise). Or you can try using LA as it was written (ugh)... And the final option would be to disallow Leadership. Option 2 would be the most powerful, and maybe useful for all of us, seeing as this is likely to be a rather lethal game.

If I went option #2 It would help as I see a group of 4 characters being at a disavantage should players become swarmed/outnumbered.

as I think it (leadership) breaks when it involves LA races.

A truer statement has never been spoken.

As a human/dwarf/gnome/halfling/half-elf cleric of 9th level would have a cohort of 7th level.

But if said cohort were a drow they would only be 5th lvl.

BTW, what world/pantheon is this set in, or is it homebrew? Is this a world where portals are present?

Everyone should decide this as a different group may play in a different world than another.

For balance it doesn't matter what race your cohort is, just that the choices balance out in terms of power using LA as a balancer.

True I would like to run it this way but use dragonwriter's suggestion that we base things on ECLs to get a little tougher cohorts (a houserule per say)

I think by RAW you count as character level and not ECL for your leadership, the same way you would for any other feat power such as the DC and number of uses of stunning fist.

I think this is considered part of the balancing of the LA race powers you get (SR, better stats, etc.). An LA character generally does worse than an LA 0 character on level based powers unless their racial advantages bump them up in that area.

From that perspective it makes sense for a lower level drow to have a weaker cohort than a higher level elf of the same ECL.

?????????? So high elf lvl 8 = cohort lvl6, Drow lvl 6 = cohort lvl4 ????????
That is the way it is written we will try the other way and if the cohorts become to powerful than can up an few EL's

New way high elf lvl 8 = cohort lvl6, Drow lvl6(ECL8) cohort = lvl6
Scratch that it looks wrong will use above (character lvl) not ECL's sorry guys.

HM

 

[Strahd_Von_Zarovich]

Greetings,

HM - Do you still have an open slot ?
If do, the house rules in the first post still apply for character creation?

Roy (a.k.a Strahd)

 

[HolyMan]

Greetings,

HM - Do you still have an open slot ?
If do, the house rules in the first post still apply for character creation?

Roy (a.k.a Strahd)

I believe we do please come on aboard

Yes the character gene houserules still apply.

hmmm start a third group or make group 2 5 pc's lvl 7?

HM

 

[Rhun]

You won't regret it! Strahd's a solid, reliable roleplayer!

 

[s@squ@tch]

Re: game setting -- for creating my cleric, it becomes an issue with regards to deities and domains available.

I'm not too sold on any of the drow pantheon, as all are CE (for good reasons) except for Elistraee, and I don't envision my PC being the surface dwelling tree hugger. I don't have any real options to be a spontaneous healer/undead turner, which makes sad drow sad.