Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?

[Raven Crowking]

Oh, and I ignored the baseline of 3e, too. The power curve makes this somewhat more difficult than with 1e, but it can certainly be done. 3e's main problem in play (IMHO) is that combats take too long to resolve. This is something that was recognized early in the 4e design process, but fixing it was abandoned in favour of having longer combats to use all your encounter powers. Go figure.

 

[Bullgrit]

I assume this is a definition of "arguably" which includes "almost certainly not true"?

I can't give you more xp yet, so let me quote you, and say, "LOL!"

Bullgrit

 

[billd91]

2. Wealth level a.k.a 2e _IS_ AD&D.

People seem to forget that 2e _IS_ AD&D and 2e does have the fighter companion chart which lists magic items for a high level fighter. The assumption I always worked under was that at a MINIMUM, a character should be at least equal in gear to that fighter NPC companion.

Where is that chart? It isn't coming to mind...

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

3. The character level isn't really all that important; what is important is that the treasure found is balanced by the effort taken to find it.

3. At whatever level he or she finds one and is able to keep it.

I think you are both assuming that Hussar is asking when a 1E DM is obligated to dole out a +2 sword. The better question, and one that was quite relevant in EGG's discussion of avoiding Monty Haulism, is what levels are considered to be too early to hand out a magic item of this power?

Because a character will never find a +2 sword until the DM decides to place it as loot. RC's answer comes closer to answering the question, but for us non-genius DMs back in the day this wasn't a simple answer from "Game 1."

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Agreed. But 3E operates just like 1E in this regard. It assumes a baseline in order to give you some additional tools that operate along that baseline; but it's trivial to abandon the baseline.

(This is notably no[t](?) true in 4E, however, was specifically designed to formalize the fetishization of balance that consumed certain segments of 3E fandom.)

I disagree. 4E has the same baseline assumptions as 3E, just presented in a different way. And due to the flattening of the power curve you can deviate from that baseline with less effort to adjust than in 3E. Guidelines have also been officially provided in 4E for throwing out the baseline completely and running a campaign with no magic items at all.

 

[Raven Crowking]

RC's answer comes closer to answering the question, but for us non-genius DMs back in the day this wasn't a simple answer from "Game 1."

I don't think genius is required.

And due to the flattening of the power curve you can deviate from that baseline with less effort to adjust than in 3E.

Agreed. And, again, I don't think genius is required.



RC

 

[Raven Crowking]

I can't give you more xp yet, so let me quote you, and say, "LOL!"

Bullgrit

Yes, I am certainly put into my place.

Clearly, your metric for evidence hasn't changed.


RC

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I don't think genius is required.

I got bettah!

As a young DM I read the books. I read about avoiding the pitfalls of Monty Haulism or being a Killer DM. Yet I fell into both until I had the experience not to. So, either the advice was not as strong as it could have been or I was more lacking in my comprehension than those who "got it right from Game 1."

 

[Garthanos]

Perhaps I should start a thread about the similarities between AD&D and 4e.(RC you mention the power curve)?

While wrapping my head around 4e and realizing that a first level character was a first level hero... not the same as a 1st level AD&D character. I started figuring out a translation ... when a 4e player has a level 1 it is closer in most regards to a 4 to 6th level AD&D character. For instance it will take another 4 levels or so before the character will have twice the hit points he started with and If you are a spell caster you have regular impact on the combat which seemed true as spell caster got a little more advanced in 1/2e as well... and some other details align, though I am mostly talking about feel. I vaguely remember starting characters at 4 to 6th level wasnt an entirely uncommon house rule.

People concentrating on differences I find myself seeing similarities

There has been mention that 4e feels like a throwback, I didnt see it maybe that was indeed because I skipped version 3? The more I absorb on the interweb about 3e the more I may be agreeing.

new thread? too old of topic?

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, either the advice was not as strong as it could have been or I was more lacking in my comprehension than those who "got it right from Game 1."

No doubt the advice could have been better -- this is always true, regardless of how good the advice is! But Gygax wrote the DMG in a stream-of-consciousness style that one either "got" or did not.

At least it is fair to say that he increased many people's vocabularies!

Perhaps I should start a thread about the similarities between AD&D and 4e.(RC you mention the power curve)?

Sounds like a fine topic. Link if you fork it.


RC