1st Person vs. 3rd Person DMing

[Weregrognard]

I came across a slight revelation while analyzing my last game session. In particular, I was pondering about an RP encounter I used to give some needed exposition and allow the players to get some spotlight time. The encounter ended up rather lackluster, in my opinion.

When I portray NPCs, I tend to hop from acting out the character (with voices, etc.) to describing what the character says and does (“he/she says”, etc.) This usually happens when my throat is tired from the voice acting or worse, when I’m stumped for what the character says or does.

So here’s my realization: the hopping around from 1st person to 3rd person is what hurt the RP encounter. You see, when I was portraying the NPCs in 1st person, the players were engaged, directly addressing me as their characters. The moment I switched to 3rd person, I inadvertently switched modes to “narrator”, which caused the players to switch into “audience” mode. They were no longer active participants and therefore, ceased interacting with the NPCs.

Has this ever happened to you when you DM? What can be done to mitigate this problem?

 

[Gilladian]

I have the same weakness. I find it very hard to stay in 1st person mode, even when I don't "do" a voice. I'd love advice on how to maintain the mood longer.

And I will NOT do silly props like hats!

 

[weem]

Don't you need to come in and out of 1st and 3rd person?

I can talk as the character directly to the players, but anything the NPC does that he is not saying out loud needs to be explained.

For example, in my last game, when an NPC entered the home of one of the players, he was talking to them while walking around closing the shutters on the windows so no one could see. My conversation went something like this...

As he enters the room, he moves immediately past you, "Thanks for seeing me. Brellin said I could talk to you... that I could trust you all with this", and as he speaks he moves quickly from window to window closing the shutters. At each window he takes a darting look outside before closing it, "I had hoped Brellin could be here with me, but as you know he had to leave town"

Are you saying you never get back to first person once you kind of step out of it? Because staying in 1st person the entire time... I'm not sure how you do that (unless I am missing something here, which is entirely possible - I'm not expert with the 1st/3rd person aspects).

 

[Kwalish Kid]

This is where Goffman's frame analysis can really help a DM think about how to structure a game. One can use this as a framework to identify what elements of behaviour (or even physical objects) can lead to certain responses from the players in the form of what frame they respond within.

 

[Blackbrrd]

This is where Goffman's frame analysis can really help a DM think about how to structure a game. One can use this as a framework to identify what elements of behaviour (or even physical objects) can lead to certain responses from the players in the form of what frame they respond within.

Can you give some specific examples of what you are thinking?

 

[DSlash]

Are you saying you never get back to first person once you kind of step out of it? Because staying in 1st person the entire time... I'm not sure how you do that (unless I am missing something here, which is entirely possible - I'm not expert with the 1st/3rd person aspects).

I think the OP meant something like this
DM:NPC: Why yes! I do know the shortest way to the West Hill, I take it in order to trade my bread.
PC: How do you make your bread?
DM: He explains his process of baking his bread in detailed fashion.

It is then hard for the PC to keep the conversation going in the manner it started in.

It's amazing how doing NPC's in a first person narrative grabs the players. My usual group has 7 players in it and half of them you wouldn't expect them to be interested in the roleplaying perspective. I once gave them a survey and discovered that they even enjoyed my NPC encounters more than they did combat in some situations!

Like yourself, it sometimes occurs that I lose interest in doing the voices and return to the typical third person format. This interest is immediately rekindled when I realize that the interest of the players has gone from 100 to 0.

You see yourself that it is important to your players' interest that you talk directly to them using NPCs. For awhile, I found some conversations lasting up to 20 minutes where only 5 minutes of it was actually useful to the party goals. I'm sure your players don't want to a majority of the night talking about the weather (unless of course, the weather is a major plot point). If the players are asking questions that you don't find much use in answering, answer it to the best of your ability, but then try to steer the conversation back in the direction you wanted it to go. Find a compromise between what you envisioned and what the players want.

Oh yeah, no hats at my table.

 

[Celebrim]

So here’s my realization: the hopping around from 1st person to 3rd person is what hurt the RP encounter. You see, when I was portraying the NPCs in 1st person, the players were engaged, directly addressing me as their characters. The moment I switched to 3rd person, I inadvertently switched modes to “narrator”, which caused the players to switch into “audience” mode. They were no longer active participants and therefore, ceased interacting with the NPCs.

As Old Ben would say, "You have taken your first steps into a larger world." Or more seriously, its sounds like you've been on this path for a while and have just begun to realize how important it is to maintain that 1st person to 1st person perspective between the NPC and the PC, or between the PC and the environment he interacts with.

Has this ever happened to you when you DM? What can be done to mitigate this problem?

Just being aware of it is a big first step. And also, at times its unavoidable. Weem is correct to point out that sometimes narration is the clearest approach to the problem of communication. Doing as weem did in his sample and finishing a description with strong first person speech is a good practice. I mean really, the whole art of DMing is encouraging the players to interact with your environment, so your question is really the heart of it and at some level too broad to answer.

Encounters with multiple NPC's force you to be specific about who is acting. I've found multiple NPC encounters are very challenging to run in a satisfying way.

1) Avoid them. Keep in mind the problems that you'll run into with the PC's interacting with multiple NPC's simultaneously. You risk breaking emmersion and you also risk problems with NPC to NPC interaction or multiple DM actions per one PC action, all of which can result in putting one or more of your players unwillingly into the role of audience. For this reason, try to avoid scripting multiple NPC scenes unless you really need to.
2) If you can, bring in a DM's assistant. One of the best solutions if you can manage it if you are going to run a complex RP with multiple NPC's that is absolutely necessary is to draft a temporary helper to run one or more NPC's. This can be a fellow DM, a player whose character is out of the scene, or a loyal family member who you can conscript into the role ("Honey, can I ask for a favor...").
3) Make sure the participants have very clear voices (deep vs. falsetto, gruff vs. educated, accented vs. 'normal', etc.) and that the number of participants is smaller than your vocal range. I envy the DM's who have great voice control. I can manage maybe 5 or 6 characters, but I've known some that could have handled dozens.

I haven't ran a game in 4 years. One thing I find though is that reading fairy tales to two of my reasons for not having a game in 4 years is very good practice for this aspect of running a game. Bouncing in and out of my 'narrator voice', and the voices of the prince, princes, beast, witch, fairy, etc. is good vocal practice. If you don't have darlings to read to, I suggest doing as the medievals did and do all your reading out loud for a while, even if you are just mouthing the words.

 

[Pbartender]

To add a little to Celebrim's post,

3) Make sure the participants have very clear voices (deep vs. falsetto, gruff vs. educated, accented vs. 'normal', etc.) and that the number of participants is smaller than your vocal range. I envy the DM's who have great voice control. I can manage maybe 5 or 6 characters, but I've known some that could have handled dozens.

Three things I found that are exceptionally helpful with distinctive characterizations (even when there's only one NPC to interact with):

1) Use overly stereotypical voices and mannerisms. Thick Irish brogues, corny Southern drawls, excessively proper King's English, "Nuclear Wessels" and the like. Roll your eyes melodramatically, rub your hands together as you cackle in maniacal laughter, give an obviously sly smile.

2) For each character have in mind a celebrity actor or a character from television or movies, and use that as a basis for their mannerisms... In our Scales of War campaign, the players recently made the acquaintance of a necromancer -- the only arcanist in town willing to sell almost any magic goods and services -- he's a very useful person to know, resource-wise. Whenever I need to portray him, I think of Peter Lorre. Because he's ends up being so creepy, the players only go to him, when there's no other alternative. I have another NPC -- a grizzled, wiry, old backwoodsman -- who when I use him, I always have Burgess Meredith in mind.

3) Too much can be a bad thing. For the majority of NPCs, I use simple third person descriptions. I save the unique first person stuff for when I need an NPC to be especially memorable, or for when I want to emphasize something, be it a bit information, an action, scenery, or an idiomatic trait of that NPC. I've found if I try to stay in character constantly, I quickly tire of it and start losing everything that makes that character special.

These things really help me keep the characters distinct and intuitive to portray in my own mind, distinct and memorable for the players to interact with, and keeps the whole process from devolving into tedium for everyone.

 

[Woas]

What, no 2nd Person love? As the GM of a game I use 2nd person and 3rd person narrative the most, hardly ever using 1st. As a player I use 1st person and 3rd person most, hardly ever using 2nd.

 

[Mallus]

This isn't a problem for my group. Most of us shift freely back and forth between 1st and 3rd person during the course of the session (both the players and DM).

While I'm certainly an advocate of funny voices and bad acting, I've never found switching from 1st to 3rd person to cause a drop off in interest. What keeps players interested is a DM and group who say interesting things. Whether they're speaking in the 1st, 3rd, or 2nd person, for that matter, isn't relevant.

Put another way, my group doesn't slip into passive 'audience' mode when I start narrating. They shift into 'co-author' mode, which is just as proactive.

The players both are their characters and the authors of their characters. My experience is this is pretty common.