Hit Points--A study of humanoids.

[Amaroq]

Embrace it and you will be enlightened!

So what you're saying is that if you see the Orc Chieftan on the side of the road, kill him?

Hmm, I read that as, if you see the Orc Chieftan on the side of the road, just give him a hug! He's obviously just misunderstood!

 

[Nytmare]

For those of you who aren't big on the subtleties of buddhist inspired humor, embrace it and be enlightened!

 

[Rachel]

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything Rachel, but the idea that HPs describe "more than just physical endurance" fits in really well with your deathblow house rule (for that one attack that just couldn't be dodged, deflected, etc.)

You're not being a jerk at all! I appreciate evryone's opinion.

However, the idea actually doesn't fit in. The Deathblow draining all a defender's remaining HP to 0 actually expresses a massive amount of damage they just took. Again, pure measurement of damage taken. The intangible aspect is rolling the two 20's in a row...which is separate from hit points yet again.

 

[Rachel]

Hmm, I read that as, if you see the Orc Chieftan on the side of the road, just give him a hug! He's obviously just misunderstood!

Ah well I just thought he needed a ride!

 

[Garthanos]

However, the idea actually doesn't fit in.

I will agree with that...

Also RuneQuest is a good example of a game with the paradigm you express.

In general you are definitely in house rules territory... No reason you cant adjust to your taste but I think by
forcing hp to be wounds you are losing a lot.

1) You lose D&Ds method for measuring fatigue. (RuneQuests fatigue was very cumbersome as a separate mechanic from hit points).

2) The concept of luck that heros have more of and as a fantastical quality which can "run out" is very much chucked out the window.

3) Hit points measuring mental effects are seen all over in the game ... Morale loss being an implication of fear numerous powers have damage because they affect the mind not necessarily damage the brain... Note intimidation normally only drives somebody from the field if they are bloodied... this makes even more sense if hit points at least partially measure purely fear/morale.

4) The plausibility of fast recovery between battles, second wind and inspirational healing (by poets priests and politicians) and numerous battlefield recovery abilities in 4e, (like the fighters regenerative abilities),take a seriously different flavor... in general they are not intended to be so magical as wounds stitching would be.

It seems to me that many of the changes that were implemented in 4e actually represent the designers embracing and expounding upon the abstraction of hit points described all the way back in edition one but only ever partially implemented​

Some of the language of 4e feels legacy to me... and it creates a certain disconnect, perhaps that is what you are reacting to.(damage healing and bloodied for instance) bloodied can be sweaty, winded, shaken and uncertain.... the barbarian and tough guy heros like "bloodied" but my skilled hero prefers "winded" and my halfling rogue definitely prefers "shaken" ... he constantly questions his reasoning for being in a fight and most of his hit point loss is described with him freaking or lucking out.

I personally think something like the remove affliction ritual is closer to "True Healing" . Long term effects should require long term style solutions. A part of my game worlds story is that true healing has almost been lost from the world or atleast those with the gifts for it so I am planning to have access to certain rituals limited by extra feats - but since a feat is a big cost having it reduce the components required or accelerate the rituals in question seems a reasonable recompense. Resurrection is definitely requiring a feat.

I am considering adding a player opt in form of taking a wound for cinematic play and a non optional one for the new game I am starting which has a much darker setting...

For me adding a wounding mechanics is the way to go. It keeps a close connect to the core game. Your death blow is an example of something feeling almost like a wounding mechanic. One effect usually associated with a wound is reduced recovery of healing surges (your body is fatigued more easily and is more likely to stay that way in spite of heroic implications). Impaired performance during the heat of battle is actually not that much a feature of real wounds... they normally knock somebody under after the fact when you feel somewhat safe ... ie no I am not talking about a Death spiral.(both doctors and military studies seem to agree that isnt a real thing - weird huh.)

Anyway just thought Id mention some ideas and reasons

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I am considering adding a player opt in form of taking a wound for cinematic play and a non optional one for the new game I am starting which has a much darker setting...

For me adding a wounding mechanics is the way to go. It keeps a close connect to the core game. Your death blow is an example of something feeling almost like a wounding mechanic. One effect usually associated with a wound is reduced recovery of healing surges (your body is fatigued more easily and is more likely to stay that way in spite of heroic implications). Impaired performance during the heat of battle is actually not that much a feature of real wounds... they normally knock somebody under after the fact when you feel somewhat safe ... ie no I am not talking about a Death spiral.(both doctors and military studies seem to agree that isnt a real thing - weird huh.)

Anyway just thought Id mention some ideas and reasons

I think an opt-in kind of thing could be interesting where a player can agree to take a wound in return for some immediate benefit would be cool. The dwarf with the demon fighting axe charges the demonic monstrosity heedless of his own safety (gains an extra bonus to his charge attack) in return the monster slams him back, breaking his arm! He'll continue the fight without noticing but loses a couple of healing surges until he recovers.

I think its perfectly acceptable for a DM to impose penalties to HS circumstantially too. That seems to be a pretty well established concept that the 4e designers expected DMs to use. The party trekking through the Ice Waste slowly loses its ability to endure and their HS totals decline a bit more every day. Will they reach the Frozen Palace of the Icy Queen before the land kills them? Stay tuned! lol. Gritty and cinematic can definitely coincide.

 

[Garthanos]

I think an opt-in kind of thing could be interesting where a player can agree to take a wound in return for some immediate benefit would be cool. The dwarf with the demon fighting axe charges the demonic monstrosity heedless of his own safety (gains an extra bonus to his charge attack) in return the monster slams him back, breaking his arm! He'll continue the fight without noticing but loses a couple of healing surges until he recovers.

Yup exactly ... and maybe have the wound induce temporary hit points ... which obviously go away when you slow down or rest
Another interesting idea I saw was that when you were doing rigorous activity like fighting while wounded a clumbsy roll... would aggravate the injury... a roll of 1 or 2 on your action roll might ... umm I dont know cause you to be dazed save ends or slowed, knocked prone or weakend til end of next turn... some effect appropriate to the injury.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yup exactly ... and maybe have the wound induce temporary hit points ... which obviously go away when you slow down or rest
Another interesting idea I saw was that when you were doing rigorous activity like fighting while wounded a clumbsy roll... would aggravate the injury... a roll of 1 or 2 on your action roll might ... umm I dont know cause you to be dazed save ends or slowed, knocked prone or weakend til end of next turn... some effect appropriate to the injury.

I'd be OK with a player proposing an injury, "hey, I'll take -2 to damage for rest of the encounter if I can hit this guy" or something, whatever the DM will go for. That lets you allow a player to do a minor edit of the action and MAKE something happen or get a bonus to make it happen. Usually they'll do it at a time that is advantageous to them of course, but the DM can propose it as well. Its not really different from saying "OK, you can kill the last monster, 2 characters pay a surge." which I know half of everybody does all the time anyway.

See Rachel, we don't hate your ideas at all! They just wanted a 4e twist.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd be OK with a player proposing an injury, "hey, I'll take -2 to damage for rest of the encounter if I can hit this guy" or something, whatever the DM will go for. That lets you allow a player to do a minor edit of the action and MAKE something happen or get a bonus to make it happen. Usually they'll do it at a time that is advantageous to them of course, but the DM can propose it as well. Its not really different from saying "OK, you can kill the last monster, 2 characters pay a surge." which I know half of everybody does all the time anyway.

Very Improv of you... that is spooky for a lot of folks... I like some standard things to branch off of... I like a tree near by while I am flying... and bushes to bounce off of.

Improvised ones seems like they might work for some DMs/Players but only in the Opt in category... Where as if we have some relatively standard ones which are tightly defined. You might see a gritty gritty game like.. maybe http://www.enworld.org/forum/review...-frazetta-s-death-dealer-shadows-mirahan.html

And have crits doing them periodically. I like the idea of the burst of Temporary hit points. (Gives me a bit of the Battlerager flavor back).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Some of the language of 4e feels legacy to me... and it creates a certain disconnect, perhaps that is what you are reacting to.(damage healing and bloodied for instance) bloodied can be sweaty, winded, shaken and uncertain.... the barbarian and tough guy heros like "bloodied" but my skilled hero prefers "winded" and my halfling rogue definitely prefers "shaken" ... he constantly questions his reasoning for being in a fight and most of his hit point loss is described with him freaking or lucking out.

I love your different takes on how to describe bloodied. The image of the Halfing Rogue question why he's even in the fight particularly.