how do you find someone who cant be found?

meltinbradley

First Post
So I have a player in my game who has made money to buy the items his 19th level spell thief has been waiting for and now I feel I will not be able to do anything to him.
How do you locate someone who has a cowl of warding? (permanent mind blank)
darkstalker feat
Extremely high hide and move silent with spell buffs to make them in the 60's without rolling
improved invis almost always active.
Sure I can dispel the effects or cast disjunction, but if you dont know someone is there then youre not going to cast those spells, or any spell for that matter.
Metafaculty which is a psionic power is the only thing I have found that could locate him.
How could you deal with someone like this in combat? Say he rolls a 80 move silent and hide with improved invis and hes sniping people left and right while the other pcs are in melee?
MB
 

log in or register to remove this ad

1. Plane shift to a plane where time flows slowly. In some planes, a year may pass while six seconds pass on the Prime Material.

2. Cast Contact Other Plane

3. Find him with CoP abuse.

4. Cast Time Stop.

5. Get back to the combat.

6. ???

7. Profit.

Less abusive ways of finding him:

Mindsight


Note that it relies on telepathy. Telepathy is not explicitly listed as mind affecting or divination.

Telepathy A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
Mind Blank
The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts. This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects.

Scent


Sniff him out.
 
Last edited:

Ok, so say you contact other plan and that power tells you hes in some inn on Krynn. The NPCs head to that inn all having the capability of blindsense, blind sight, scent. He has dark stalker feat so they cant detect him. They also happen to have true seeing so they see through invis but he has a 80 hide and move silent so they dont spot him. The npcs see the other pcs and a melee begins.
Hes flying up by the ceiling and begins to fire at the npcs with his sneak attack damage and begins to rape the Npc group.
Sure the spell casters can blindly cast area effect spells, but there has to be a way to pinpoint someone without me making a character specifically designed to deal with characters like this.
 

Ok, so say you contact other plan and that power tells you hes in some inn on Krynn. The NPCs head to that inn all having the capability of blindsense, blind sight, scent. He has dark stalker feat so they cant detect him. They also happen to have true seeing so they see through invis but he has a 80 hide and move silent so they dont spot him. The npcs see the other pcs and a melee begins.
Hes flying up by the ceiling and begins to fire at the npcs with his sneak attack damage and begins to rape the Npc group.
You're over thinking this.

Pull a Darth Malik and wipe the Krynn off of the face of the planet.

Sure the spell casters can blindly cast area effect spells, but there has to be a way to pinpoint someone without me making a character specifically designed to deal with characters like this.
Mindsight. Scent. Very detailed CoP.
 

Sorry dandu,i posted that before i read your last message. Mindsight, i have not heard of that thanks.
There is also lifesense, i think its called, a feat for undead who can detect the living within 60ft.
Also, forgive my ignorance but what is CoP?
 

Also, forgive my ignorance but what is CoP?
Contact Other Plane. It's the primary means by which casters abuse divination and find out exactly who is coming for them and when. It's kinda like twenty questions, except you get a few lies thrown in the mix... which you can attempt to weed out with more Contact Other Plane!

Disclaimer: I do not advocate the use of this tactic in any game whatsoever.
 

There is also lifesense, i think its called, a feat for undead who can detect the living within 60ft.

Oh god, they actually made a feat to give lifesense? Wow...

Sean K. Reynolds said:
Here's where things get totally crazy.

First, if undead could sense life force, that would be a HUGE advantage. They could ignore invisibility, mirror image (which, mind you, is a figment, and as explained above produces a real image that creatures can actually see, not a mental trick), blindness effects***, blur, displacement, magical darkness, most concealment effects, know when a creature is standing around a corner (unless this "lifesense" requires a line of effect to the living target), spot hiding creatures automatically ... and on and on. Clearly the lowly skeleton is a much greater threat because of this! What evil necromancer or cleric in his right mind wouldn't keep some skeletons on hand to alert his living minions of invisibles and such in the area! We must increase the CRs of all undead immediately! After all, this lifesense operates like a combination of deathwatch, see invisibility, and true seeing!

But wait ... again we run into the problem that none of the D&D books say that undead ignore invisibility and so on. And this lifesense brings up a lot of questions. Can they sense nonliving things that aren't creatures, like walls? Deathwatch says they can recognize nonliving creatures such as constructs but doesn't say anything about recognizing nonliving objects, presumably because the default assumption of a human caster can already sense that a floor exists, but the lifesense argument cannot use "undead have human senses" as an assumption because the lifesense conclusion is trying to explain why undead do not have human senses.**** It would make it a lot harder for undead to get around if their only perception of their environment was through living or undead landmarks. Heck, if they can't sense objects, undead monks wouldn't be able to use Deflect Arrows since they couldn't perceive the arrow in flight or even as it was leaving the enemy's bow. Same goes for Improved Disarm and Sunder ... how can you knock a weapon out of someone's hand or attack the weapon if you can't actually sense the weapon in the first place? Heck, how can undead pick up weapons and use them in combat? They can't see a scabbard to attach to a belt (which they also can't see), and they can't see the sword in the scabbard. Undead must walk around with their weapons out all the time because if they ever put down their weapon they'll never be able to find it again! And good luck using magic items ... a wounded undead trying to dig a potion of inflict critical wounds (which it can't see) out of its pouch (which it can't see) so it can heal itself won't be able to read the label on the potion (since the label and paper are not living)!

(As an aside, notice the sample vampire in the MM has the Blind-Fight feat. Why would it ever need this feat if it could sense invisible creatures and operate in total darkness? You could argue that it had that feat while it was still alive and just has to "eat" the choice of a bad feat that does nothing for its undead self (just like the Diehard feat would do it no good, since as an undead it can never go to negative hit points). But why would WotC deliberately give a bad feat selection into a creature in the MM? Wouldn't that make the creature weaker than its CR would indicate? You don't see them giving Improved Unarmed Strike feat to longsword-wielding humanoids--which is just as innefectual (and dumb) a choice as the lifesensing vampire with the useless (to it) Blind-Fight feat. Similarly, the sample elite vampire has Blind-Fight and Improved Disarm, which as I point out about is problematic for the undead that can't sense nonliving things.

So maybe they can sense objects walls and floors and such just as well as a human can ... but if you're giving them that, why add in on top of that a special and superior sense that isn't mentioned in the books? If the whole point of lifesense is that undead don't see things like humans do, why turn around and say that they do see things like humans do and then slap some goodies on top of that--goodies that aren't mentioned in the core books?

Can you hear with lifesense? Taste? Touch? Smell? No answers. Wait, undead have to be able to hear, since their creator can give them verbal commands. So is that a quirk that they can hear only because it comes from a living creature? Why would this sense differentiate between sound waves made by a living creature and those that aren't. I guess lifesense lets you hear. Probably like a human. Which again makes me wonder why they need a special sense if they're already using human senses.

What about energy? Acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic aren't objects. Can lifesense detect a wall of fire? Can it detect heat at all? Spells?

And what range is this ability? 60 feet? 120 feet? As far as a human can see? This ability isn't defined anywhere. If it has a limited range, then the living should have long ago figured out what that range and exploited it. "An army of undead is on the way? Fear not, just stay 200 feet back and pepper them with arrows, they won't be able to sense where we are."

And let's talk a bit about animate dead. This is a 3rd-level cleric spell that not only crams negative energy into a body, but it gives that undead body this super-powerful lifesense ability! And the duration is instantaneous, which means it can't be dispelled. How come some smart spellcaster hasn't taken that spell apart to find the "give target lifesense" code, strip out the "cram in negative energy" part, and end up with a lower-level spell (since it does less than the original) that gives the target creature instantaneous-duration lifesense? My answer is that there is no lifesense component, that the default senses of any creature are human-normal (in fact, I'd let you create a human senses spell that gave the target human-level senses instead of its own normal senses, but for most creatures that would be pointless). Some people might argue, "no, see, the lifesense comes as part of the natural abilities of the undead life force you're drawing from the Negative Energy Plane." Ok, I can see that, but that still doesn't mean that someone couldn't make a spell called summon a little undead spirit to wrap around my head and relay to me what it senses, which would have the same effect as the give me lifesense spell. Yet no such spell exists.

It's easier and simpler to let undead have normal human senses rather than make assumptions about an undefined yet omnipresent-in-every-undead lifesense ability that you have to keep redifining and clarifying when it's never mentioned in the books in the first place.

...And they don't have lifesense, dagnabbit.
 

Simple physical things like flour on the floor or steam.

Tremorsense is another ability that could be handy.

TREMORSENSE
A creature with tremorsense automatically senses the location of anything that is in contact with the ground and within range.

If no straight path exists through the ground from the creature to those that it’s sensing, then the range defines the maximum distance of the shortest indirect path. It must itself be in contact with the ground, and the creatures must be moving.

As long as the other creatures are taking physical actions, including casting spells with somatic components, they’re considered moving; they don’t have to move from place to place for a creature with tremorsense to detect them.


Blindsense or blindsight

BLINDSIGHT AND BLINDSENSE
Some creatures have blindsight, the extraordinary ability to use a nonvisual sense (or a combination of such senses) to operate effectively without vision. Such sense may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This ability makes invisibility and concealment (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can’t see ethereal creatures). This ability operates out to a range specified in the creature description.
• Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight.
• Blindsight does not subject a creature to gaze attacks (even though darkvision does).
• Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures using blindsight.
• Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing.
• Blindsight works underwater but not in a vacuum.
• Blindsight negates displacement and blur effects.

Blindsense: Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see has total concealment (50% miss chance) against the creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.

These are abilities that an animal companion or familiar could have or a druid when changing shape.
 


Invisibility purge.
Does he have Hide in plain sight?
Even so once you attack enemies can see you (see above for invisibility) if you want to hide again you have to move away behind something.
 

Remove ads

Top