STARGATE UNIVERSE # 12: Divided (2)Season 1/2010

[Quantum]

I can't see wray as having the interests of anyboidy else onboard, but what she is doing is following the Intedrests (yes with a capital I on purpose)of the O=IOA on board. The IOA has always been about obtaining non-terrestrial technology for their own selfish ends wwhich has always been about increasing their own power.

To that end, she instigated the mutiny with Rush. Rush also probably saw that as a weakness that he could exploit and did to help her with the mutiny.

But she will continually be an instigator against Young because of her connection to the IOA.

Unless further down the road she realizes that she can't affard to be so disruptive for it will only hurt their chances of survival.

 

[LightPhoenix]

There's definitely some play amongst both military and civilian as far as a representation of moral and ethical standards goes. I suppose the apt saying would be "the difference amongst the groups is larger than the difference between."

Continuing with the ideal, you have Scott as a paragon of the military. He's mostly level-headed, treats the civilians with respect (rather than a resource), has a sense of duty, and is generally well-liked. If Scott had been in charge, there probably wouldn't be a problem right now.

It's tempting to put Eli as a paragon of the civilians; I think that is a mistake (see below). I have to put forward Wray. She (seemingly) wants everyone to work together, generally non-combatant but still capable of holding her own, and generally reliable. Wray did what she had to in order to prevent a military dictatorship, using the resources she had, in a non-violent way. In essence, she's the representation of civilization on Earth, and wants to move it back that way. That the show is decidedly pro-military makes this more difficult to explain though.

On the extremist side, you have Young and Rush - each generally representing the worst of the military and civilians. Neither has respect for the other side, nor wants to work together. It's notable both are loners. You also have Greer and Chloe - the former the stereotypical military hot-head, and the latter the stereotypical civilian useless person. It's notable that they're both generally uncaring about the military/civilian divide despite taking sides. In the end, Greer is ultimately in the middle of Young and Scott, and Chloe is generally in between Rush and Wray.

Eli seems to be at the center of the conflict; in essence, he's a representation of Aristotle's phronimos (possibly spelled wrong), ie, the ideal middle ground. That he comes off as an idealist is not be coincidence - his position in the whole scheme of things is by definition ideal. Of course, making that work seems to be Eli's arc, of sorts. I would consider putting TJ in this category as well.

Anyway, about the episode, I found it generally likable. I found the use of the hole convenient, but a nice reference. It makes sense that Rush wouldn't know about the hole, and Wray might overlook it. I was expecting them to take a shuttle when they jumped out of FTL and go back around through the gate into the civilian side.

I was hoping Eli would be a little more against Young, given his comment in last week's episode to Young about getting rid of Rush. He showed another sign of it today, sticking up for Rush's shield plan.

TJ easily had the best line (paraphrased): "War is what we do." Completely bad-ass. Her nonchalant, almost tired, attitude about the whole thing was awesome as well. It's why I'm inclined to put her in Eli's group of idealists; she's tired of the whole military versus civilian thing.

It's about time they used the stones for something practical. That the connection was broken in the middle of the surgery was a little too convenient. I'm willing to give it a pass; Eli was guessing at the cause, it seems more likely the aliens blocked the stones from working.

My firm hope is that by the end of the season, both Rush and Young are confined, and the crew starts working together to survive. Survival isn't serviced by the conflict, nor by either side being in control. It's services by both sides working together.

 

[Dire Bare]

LightPhoenix, you have a lot of really good observations!

If Scott had been in charge, there probably wouldn't be a problem right now.

Yeah, but Scott doesn't have the self-confidence to lead . . . yet . . .

On the extremist side, you have Young and Rush - each generally representing the worst of the military and civilians. Neither has respect for the other side, nor wants to work together.

I don't think that Young has a disrespect, dislike, or distrust of civilians, but I do think his natural inclinations are to assume that military leadership is the way to go. Probably not even a question in his mind, at least not until his personal failure leaving Rush on the planet to die. The look he gave Wray towards the end of the episode when she said "It was wrong to abandon Rush" (or words to that effect) and he gave an anguished, "I know".

I was hoping Eli would be a little more against Young, given his comment in last week's episode to Young about getting rid of Rush. He showed another sign of it today, sticking up for Rush's shield plan.

Eli wasn't acting against Young or sticking up for Rush, he was simply and honestly saying, "Yeah, the guy's a dick, but I think he's right on this one". I think Eli has come to dislike and distrust Rush, but isn't comfortable with disliking him and also wants to see him as a mentor. And Eli also realizes that despite his manipulations, Rush is almost always right about the scientific and tech problems the crew encounters.

Also of note, Young has a lot of respect for Eli, more than Eli himself does. He listened to Eli and decided to trust him on the shield vs weapons issue.

 

[Felon]

"Inconvenient?" I realize that's the word Wray used, and from her limited point of view it may be right, assuming she isn't aware that Rush framed Young for murder. With what we know, though, no, that's not even close to the right word. Rush was not left to die simply because he was "inconvenient." A civilian on the ship might see it that way, but the audience at home should not.

The entire episode in question was about Young being investigated for murder through some approximation of due process. When Young found out Rush framed him, he had the option to bring Rush's actions to light for judgment by the community. He also could have exercised his own authority. Rather, he tried to murder Rush and then lied to cover it up. Bad move. It's easy to view Young's actions as petty, as Wray does.

In SG:U, I do think that the writers are trying for a more balanced approach. The military isn't portrayed as consistently "good" and "right" all the time, and the civvies aren't consistently "bad" or incompetent. I think there is an honest effort to show all characters as more realistic, well-rounded human beings rather than always right heroes or always wrong villains. Now, granted, they haven't been even close to perfecting that balance . . . .

Oh, by no means is this as bad as, say, Voyager, where the Maquis crew members weren't there to present an alternate point of view so much as they were there to gradually admit that the Star Fleet way (and the Janeway way) is invariably the right way. This show's certainly much more subtle than that. But from a metafictional perspective, the victories are consistently being handed to the soldiers.

Oh, and BTW, I don't see Greer as a thug . . . . but he obviously has issues, is quick to use force, and is very loyal to the military. If Young ever needs somebody "wacked", he'd turn to Greer to get it done. (not that I think that will happen)

I dunno, DB, that sounds like the textbook definition of a thug to me.

I would say Greer is not loyal to the military--he is awaiting a court-martial, after all--but rather loyal to any individual that he perceives as deserving his loyalty. Greer is like a vicious dog. If Young were to show excessive weakness or rebuke him severely, then Greer would likely turn apostate.

The moment that really made me most wary of the military's unilateral control was when Young was on trial and Greer announced that they should march in with their guns cocked and tell everybody that the game's over and to get back to work. This episode, Greer's inclination was realized, as he essentially sent the civilians to their rooms like naughty children. That infantilizing regard for civilians is pretty offensive.

 

[Felon]

I have to honestly say I cheered when Greer and the other military personnel took back the ship. Yeah, I'm, on the pro-military side here. Young may have his screw ups, and there was that unfortunate incident with Rush, but I have the dramatic irony of knowing that Rush framed Young. Also, I'm not sympathetic toward Wray. She's IOA, and really the only likeable IOA character in the entire Stargate universe is Woolsey. Because she's IOA, she's a petty self-aggrandizing bureaucrat who wants to see the worst of the military in everything. And it doesn't help they pulled this coup right as the aliens popped in and attacked. That's another reason I cheered, because that's when you're going to need the military the most.

Well, it seems to me the simple fact of the matter is that the military personnel are always going to be needed in some capacity. The civilians aren't about to lock and load and go jumping through stargates or fighting off boarding parties. Since there's no way to marginalize that faction, this sneaky little coup couldn't amount to more than a half-baked negotiation tactic. It was a ploy of desperation, and you only enact desperate ploys when all other options are exhausted. I don't get the feeling that they were. After all, Young has already proven he was willing to accept a more limited role after the murder investigation. And Rush's singular expertise gives that jerk plenty of leverage.

The correct order of things is a negotiation for an increased role in decision-making, followed by peaceful non-cooperation, and only then if provoked should a coup be on the table. Then again, this all may wind up working in reverse order, because next week Young will still have to come to terms with the civilians and he'll still need Rush's expertise.

 

[Truth Seeker]

That sounds like a person who doesn't want to see 'TV' growing up. Rather prefer the stale 2D characterizations of the morale tree.

A few weeks ago I happened to glance at the comments about SG:U on Hulu and saw one person's complaint that said (I'm paraphrasing), "I'm sick and tired of characters with flaws. Why don't the writers try something different for a change?" I had to stare at that for a moment before I could believe what I was reading. This poster (and he/she wasn't the only one with this complaint) was actually complaining about the "good" characters having flaws, being three dimensional and realistic. That's exactly why I like this show. Nobody is perfect in real life.

 

[Wayside]

I don't think you've got a handle on these two characters. Rush DOES care about his fellow passengers well-being and survival . . . . but he feels there are more important things at stake and does not want the crew to find a way back home to Earth . . . yet. Rush is arrogant, driven, and misguided, but not amoral.

Pretty much every significant action Rush has taken is amoral, from gating to Destiny instead of earth to framing Young for murder. And frequently he does these things in the most manipulative way possible, like taking his name out of the lottery in part two of Light or steering someone else into testing out the ancient chair.

 

[Orius]

Yeah, we obviously don't all see it the same -- the mark of a good show, I'm sure.

What I've seen so far is the military are bunch of thugs, bullies who are in control because they have the power to be in control. They commonly act in ways that are not in the best interests of the civilians on the ship, and Young in particular is an egotistical jerk, full of himself and a pure-and-simple dictator on the ship.

And to me, the civilians are mostly scientists who seem to have trouble agreeing on anything, which is not a good thing in a crisis situation when someone needs to be in charge, and the others fall in line. Wray is a petty bureaucrat who doesn't seem to have any leadership skills and who seems to marginalize people she doesn't like, and Rush is an amoral backstabber. I'd rather deal with Young if he could be reasoned with and understand that the civvies aren't going to blindly obey orders like the military officers.

We've still never had a chance to see what might actually happen if the guys with the muscles and the guns weren't bullying everyone around.

Probably the aliens would have blown Destiny out of the sky while the civilians stood around dithering and arguing.

A few weeks ago I happened to glance at the comments about SG:U on Hulu and saw one person's complaint that said (I'm paraphrasing), "I'm sick and tired of characters with flaws. Why don't the writers try something different for a change?" I had to stare at that for a moment before I could believe what I was reading.

Well, then there's 15 seasons worth of SG-1 and Atlantis they should look for.

Honestly, I'm not overly fond of flaws, flaws, flaws, all the time either. If I want dysfunction, I'll just stick around in reality where I can easily get my fill. Some people prefer a certain amount of escapism. I can deal with flawed characters, but I want to see then get some character growth and overcome the flaws too.

I was hoping Eli would be a little more against Young, given his comment in last week's episode to Young about getting rid of Rush. He showed another sign of it today, sticking up for Rush's shield plan.

Yeah, but you also had the coup attempt locking out the shuttle and placing Young and Scott's lives in danger. So he's seeing both sides attack each other here.

 

[FoxWander]

I don't have anything to say about the episode in general that hasn't already been said but I do have one gripe/annoyance- I don't have anything against the Chloe character, but what the frak!? Her whole "alien abduction" experience lasted... what... 20 minutes?! Maybe an hour, at most, and she's so messed up by it she's having nightmares and can't sleep! Get over it already. Besides, what do you expect to happen when you walk all moon-eyed into the light from the new hole in the ship's hull during an ALIEN ATTACK! Did she think puppies and cake were gonna rain down out of there. I don't know. She seemed like her character was finally growing some backbone or getting interesting and then she does something that stupid and gets all traumatized by her "horrible abduction experience". Meh- I guess her character role is victim-of-the-week.[/end rant]

 

[Fast Learner]

Probably the aliens would have blown Destiny out of the sky while the civilians stood around dithering and arguing.

Well, let's see: the civilian plan was to keep the shields as high as possible and not waste energy on firing. The plan that was followed was to keep the shields as high as possible and not waste energy on firing. The result was Destiny escaping nicely.

So, no, the civilian plan was actually good and completely effective. Crazy, right?