Deadlands & Earthdawn

Pinnacle has probably taken it down by now, but I discovered that I have a free PDF copy of the original rules Player's Guide (Revised Edition) that they had posted either on their site or RPGNow for download. Unfortunately, I don't think they made the Marshal's Guide a free download as well.

I got into Deadlands and had played the original ruleset and loved the world fiction. It seemed such an easier game to DM than D&D, though I didn't get to play it for long. I'm eager to try out Reloaded, having just purchased and read the SW rules.

BTW, wasn't Earthdawn originally created by FASA (I saw an ad in an old FASA catalog recently and was wondering about it)? Is it a good RPG? What are its mechanics like?
 

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BTW, wasn't Earthdawn originally created by FASA (I saw an ad in an old FASA catalog recently and was wondering about it)? Is it a good RPG? What are its mechanics like?

Yes.

IMO, yes.

And the base mechanic is Steps. Your ranks in a Talent (a cross somewhere between a 3E/4E active feat and a 4E power) plus your Attribute rank totalled to a Step number. The Step number determined what size and how many dice you rolled. You always wanted to roll high and target numbers were determined similar to 3E/4E D&D (more like 4E for attack rolls vs. defenses).

Spells used matrices to cast safely, although you could risk casting a spell without one. Each spell had a number of needed Threads to cast it. From as few as zero and increasing as the power of the spell increased. More experienced casters had matrices that could hold more than one thread at once. Casters would prepare their available matrices with spell usually during a short rest and once loaded could continue casting the same spell repeatedly.

Anything but minor Magic items couldn't be used unless the character attached a Thread to the item (same Thread as mentioned above, non-casters did not receive the Thread Weaving talent until 4th level). As they went up in level they could strengthen their thread and increase the power of the item. Sometimes it required additional knowledge or deeds before you could strengthen your thread.

Each race had a Karma die that could (and sometimes had to) be used to augment your rolls. More powerful races received a smaller karma die. Each class had a Talent that allowed them to generate Karma points.

Levels weren't exactly levels, they were Circles. You had to increase your ranks through the use of XP. Meanwhile you spent XP on magic item threads, karma points, etc. When you had a requisite number of Talents raised to their maximum rank for your Circle, you could spend XP to achieve the next Circle. New talents, new spells, higher limits all came with an increase in Circle.
 

Earthdawn was originally published by FASA. It was later licensed to Living Room Games, which put out a 2nd Edition with a few supplements. The game had a strong fan following, but there were large gaps in the official support. Redbrick Limited got the license and modified and compiled some of the 1st Edition books into the Player's Compendium and Gamemaster's Compendium, and also published additional books. It is noteworthy that they largely ignored the metaplot of the Living Room Games edition. They recently partnered with Mongoose Publishing to publish a new line of Earthdawn 3rd Edition books. The 3rd Edition system has a similar base, but numerous changes from 2nd Edition crunch-wise, but the setting and background is largely the same, and there is a lot of fluff that overlaps between the editions. Many of the older edition books are also available in pdf format.

Whether or not it is a good rpg is subjective, but I think it reads well. It has maintained a strong fan following and had three editions published.

The core mechanic is based around rolling a number of dice based on the character's "Step Number" for the action being performed. If any of the rolled dice roll the highest number on the die, the character rolls an additional die of that type (and repeats if that die rolls its highest number). The totals on the dice are then added together. There is a chart for the Step Numbers, and the chart is built so that the average roll of the dice (including the odds of bonus dice and their rolls) averages out to the Step Number. The Step Number may be modified by circumstances, which can slow down gameplay, but there is an alternate rule (which I would certainly use myself) which applies the modifier to the result rather than the Step Number. Characters have 6 Attributes (similar to D&D's) and a number of Characteristics (such as Armor, Physical Defense, Spell Defense, Social Defense, Wound Threshold, Recovery Tests, and Initiative) that are derived from these Attributes.

Earthdawn has a class an level based system. Player Characters in Earthdawn are "Adepts" who progress in a "Discipline", which means that they have found a way to view the world that allows them to tap into the power of legends to enhance themselves. It is noteworthy that an Adept views the world through the lens of their specialty, although there is some latitude in your character's view. As an example, an Archer would tend to view problems in terms of targets and solutions as arrows in his quiver; an Illusionist might not consider something false simply because it is not true, realizing the power inherent in a perception even if that perception has no basis in reality. Adepts progress in mastery through "Circles", which are the equivalent of levels in D&D.

Each Discipline has a number of Discipline Talents (abilities all characters of that Discipline must have) and Talent options (which allows for diversity between members of the same Discipline). Among other things, as characters advance in Circle, they gain new Talents, new Abilities, and bonuses to their Defenses (Physical, Mental, and Social), bonuses to Initiative, Recovery Bonuses (the equivalent in 4th Edition of gaining additional Healing Surges).

All characters have Karma, which can be spent to roll an extra d6 for certain actions (which upgrades later to a d8).

Characters have skills. There is some overlap between skills and Talents, with Talents being stronger versions of the skills. In addition, all Disciplines have "Half-Magic", which allows you to use half your Circle in the Discipline (rounded up) as the Step Number for tasks related to the Discipline. If a character has a skill as well as Half Magic, they can choose which to use (it may be advantageous to use Half Magic even if it is slightly lower than the skill, as you can spend Karma on a Half-Magic test).

To advance, a character earns "Legend Points", and keeps track of the total that they have earned, and the current number they have to spend. Legend Points are spent to raise attributes, learn new talents, upgrade old talents, learn new skills, upgrade skills, learn spells, and purchase Karma points. In order to advance in Circle, a character must have his Discipline talents at a minimum rank, and must meet with a higher-Circle member of his Discipline to train him. Advancing in Circle gives new special abilities, the ability to spend Karma on additional types of tests, access to additional talent options, stronger Half-Magic, and the previously mentioned bonuses.

Multi-Disciplining is possible, but can be difficult and requires GM approval.

Powerful magical Items tend to have Legends of their own, and also become bound in the character's Legend. Finding out about an items history and binding it to the character allows the character to slowly access more of the item's powers.

One thing to note is that there is no "Cleric" equivalent in Earthdawn. Instead of gods, earthdawn has Passions (Passions are personified, although they can take many forms), and any character can be a Questor of a Passion, and the Passion grants the character magic to inspire others in the ways of the Passion.

Redbrick put out several previews for the 3rd Edition, and you can learn more of some of the mechanics in those previews. The 3rd Edition has numerous asides that include alternate rules to tailor the game to suit your group, including ways to simplify and speed up certain things, as well as advice on bringing back limitations from older editions that were removed.
 

I'm with Umbran- I love the original version of Deadlands and really haven't seen any improvement to it in subsequent translations to other systems...though I'll probably get the new version of Deadlands eventually.

Earthdawn also had a nicely conceived setting. I'd say its worth getting the core book just to yoink ideas from.
 

Earthdawn also had a nicely conceived setting. I'd say its worth getting the core book just to yoink ideas from.

There's kind of a Points of Light vibe going on there, with disparate groups of survivors emerging from magic-proof kaers (or bunkers) and trying to re-build civilisation. The Horrors add a Lovecraftian feel to the game, are extremely hard to kill and make a fun (if nervous) gaming experience.

Yes, the setting really could get well-mined. It's one of the best.
 

Warning, this will be long because Earthdawn was my drug of choice for many a year (and always threatens to come back :) ). I’ll try to piggyback on other responses to not repeat too much.

If I wanted to sum up why Earthdawn is awesome in a single word, it would be flavor. That should come through below.

I personally like that the racial mix is different from standard fantasy without having too many or departing far from normal fantasy tropes (in addition to humans, elves, and dwarves, there are trolls, small winged fairies, rock men, and lizardmen as major races).
And orcs! Oh, and if you have a mental image of what these races might be like based on previous experiences, you might be surprised. The lizardmen (called t’skrang) are river dwelling traders and pirates with a strong swashbuckler feel to their culture. The rockmen (called obsidimen) are literally made of rock and “emerge” from a magical liferock instead of being born in a conventional sense, and they’re so bulky that their written language is basically landscaping (or they hire a scribe). The trolls are not the green monstrous kind from DnD, but rather resemble huge cousins of orcs with large horns. Oh, and they’re known for sailing the skies in their airships and using magic to literally leap off the side to descend on a small village to raid it.

There is a well developed villain (the Theran Empire and their slavers) that is not completely evil.
The Therans are just one of many well developed threats to toss at the PCs. But I think the most important are the Horrors, abominations from another realm of existence (astral space) that are about as Lovecraftian as you can get. They vary widely in power level, with the more powerful ones finding sustenance by causing strife, misery, fear, etc. Many of them can corrupt the minds of their victims in all sorts of insidious ways. Horrors get top billing for me because the backdrop for Earthdawn exists solely because of the damage they dealt to the world…

In Earthdawn (and Shadowrun), the level of magic on Earth ebbs and flows, like a sine curve. When the level of magic gets high enough, the walls between Earth and astral space get thin, and the monsters that live in astral space (the Horrors) can come to Earth. Earthdawn is set just after the end of what’s called the Scourge, a 1000 (I think it was this long) year period in which Horrors ravaged the world. During that time, the peoples of the world hid in underground cities called kaers in hopes to survive the Scourge. Not all succeeded. So basically, you have a world with a magic level that’s low enough that most of the Horrors have went back to astral space (but certainly not all); plenty of excuses for dungeon crawls thanks to the kaers, and all sorts of other goodness.

Spells used matrices to cast safely, although you could risk casting a spell without one. Each spell had a number of needed Threads to cast it. From as few as zero and increasing as the power of the spell increased. More experienced casters had matrices that could hold more than one thread at once. Casters would prepare their available matrices with spell usually during a short rest and once loaded could continue casting the same spell repeatedly.
And the cool thing is these spellcasting rules had flavor explanations behind them. Since spellcasting draws power from astral space, casters had to use matrices to protect themselves from the corruption in astral space from the recent activity of the Horrors, not to mention to try to hide their activity so a Horror wouldn’t decide to pay a visit. Furthermore, only so much of a spell could be stored in a matrix, so the caster had to weave additional magic threads into more complex spells in order to cast them.

Anything but minor Magic items couldn't be used unless the character attached a Thread to the item (same Thread as mentioned above, non-casters did not receive the Thread Weaving talent until 4th level). As they went up in level they could strengthen their thread and increase the power of the item. Sometimes it required additional knowledge or deeds before you could strengthen your thread.
Magic in Earthdawn runs off the basic principle that (a) everything had a “pattern” or mystical representation of itself and (b) to access magic you could weave threads to such patterns. So to use a magic item, you had to weave threads to it (there’s that rules baked with flavor again!). And if you wanted to weave threads to something, you needed to know about that something in order to do it. And the stronger the thread, the greater the power. So for a weapon, you might need to learn it’s name, then the name of the person who forged it, then where they forged it, then what beast the creator killed with the weapon, and so on.

Each Discipline has a number of Discipline Talents (abilities all characters of that Discipline must have) and Talent options (which allows for diversity between members of the same Discipline). Among other things, as characters advance in Circle, they gain new Talents, new Abilities, and bonuses to their Defenses (Physical, Mental, and Social), bonuses to Initiative, Recovery Bonuses (the equivalent in 4th Edition of gaining additional Healing Surges).
Actually, a lot of Earthdawn tracks to 4th Edition DnD. Talents feel like powers. All attacks roll against a defense score. And so on. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the 4e designers looked at Earthdawn for inspiration.

To advance, a character earns "Legend Points", and keeps track of the total that they have earned, and the current number they have to spend. Legend Points are spent to raise attributes, learn new talents, upgrade old talents, learn new skills, upgrade skills, learn spells, and purchase Karma points.
What’s cool about having legend points vs. XP is how it really makes xp feel like it has a tangible in game effect. There’s literally a table that shows how well known/famous a character is based on his/her legend point total. One of the shticks of Earthdawn is that the characters are “building their legend.” Defeating opponents earns you legend points, naturally, as does turning in certain trophies (of course your legend improves if you show off the fangs of a hydra you killed to the nearby town). Oh, and you can write a journal and hand it into the Library to earn a handful of legend points :)

Bah, I could go on and on, but I think I'll shut up for now :p Happy to talk about any of it more.
 

RedBrick Limited • Raising Your Game for earthdawn and Fading Suns! The third edition is pretty nifty and streamlined, while classic is just fasa's original stuff erratted.

I can't say enough good stuff about earthdawn. It is perhaps to me the system. The system and flavor go so well together, it also adds just the right mix of horror/fantasy to me that makes it perfect, combat is fast and fluid once you get the hang of the dice mechanics, yet still deadly enough to make it a threat. The newest edition has made building encounters and such much easier, you get a lot of support from the earthdawn crew at redbricks site as well.

here is a link to an intro adventure that they put out for free. http://www.redbrick-limited.com/cms/index.php?categoryid=12&p13_sectionid=4&p13_fileid=61

I hope this helps!

Earthdawn itch.. so want to run a ed game now, but all I can find in the area is people who want to play 4th.
 
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Both Deadlands and Earthdawn are awesome! :D

Savage Worlds is basically Deadlands: Evolved.

In the transition to a generic system, the rules got much lighter, so if you prefer complex systems, Deadlands classic is clearly the better choice.

Deadlands: Reloaded does work very well, though. And if you like simple, rules-light systems, Savage Worlds is a very good one.

Earthdawn is one of the coolest fantasy backgrounds ever. The game system works well enough, but can be a little crazy at higher levels. Also, it seems to be focused a bit too much on the horrors, which grows a bit repetitive. I only have and know the 1st edition, though I think the newer editions fixed some of the high-level issues (like the multi-discipline craziness). Earthdawn has the best magic item system I have seen in an RPG so far.


If you like western, Aces & Eights might also be worth a look (it's traditional western, not like Deadlands). And if you like the western-mixed-with-something-else, I would also recommend taking a look at the Serenity RPG (a fun Western-Space Opera mix).

Bye
Thanee
 

The third edition is pretty nifty and streamlined, while classic is just fasa's original stuff erratted.

I can't say enough good stuff about earthdawn.
Yup, I'm liking Earthdawn a lot and Redbrick's version of the rules is very good.

I'm currently playing in an Earthdawn game, though I couldn't convince my fellow players to switch to the 3e rules (yet).

I was also very much looking forward to the Age of Legends setting. It would have been my #1 choice for a 4e setting.

I don't know a lot about Deadlands, though. Wasn't this some kind of Western/Horror genre mix? If that's what it is, it's totally not my cup of tea.
 

I was a bit hesitant on switching to third myself and I'm glad I did, the only thing I don't like is where Classic is 2 HUGE books, third is 4 smaller ones.
 

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