Deadlands & Earthdawn

[deganawida]

My DM and I were discussing non-d20 games today, and, what with my recent love of the West thanks to Red Dead Redemption, I looked up Deadlands. This game sounds awesome, with a fantastic premise and neat, flavorful mechanics. Has anyone played it? If so, what are your thoughts on the system itself, editions, and how much crazy fun (if any) it is?

On the traditional fantasy side, I regret missing the boat on Earthdawn back when it debuted. I always found the artwork evocative, it had ties to Shadowrun, and the premise sounded neat, but I passed it over. Now, I can't find much on it, FASA kinda-sorta went under, and it's out of print. Can anyone describe the setting, the mechanics, and the feel of the game to me? Was it fun and atmospheric?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Desdichado]

I've heard decent things about the house system, bad things about the older d20 conversion (which was one of the very early ones back in 2000 or 2001). There's also a GURPS and a Savage Worlds version.

So, which system do you mean? I'd probably favor Savage Worlds if I were to run it. IIRC, Rel has just started up (or is just about to start up) a SW Deadlands game too; maybe he'll have another "running commentary" thread on it.

 

[AngryMojo]

I've been running Deadlands for a very long time, and am about to begin their plot point campaign "The Flood." I'm a huge fan of the game, and the system it's current incarnation uses (Savage Worlds).

If you're accustomed to a D&D mindframe when it comes to mechanics, you need to reject a lot of premise for Deadlands and Savage Worlds. SW moves lightning fast, and was bult from the ground up for speed. Some people have difficulty with the level of abstraction this causes, but if you prefer games to have more of a cinematic feel than a simulationist or tactical feel, it's great. There's little to no bookkeeping on the part of the GM.

Deadlands itself as a setting is something special, and holds a very dear place in my heart. It's a little quirky, and not for everyone, but it simply drips flavor at every turn. Playing cards are used many times during the game, shootouts at high noon are handled like Texas Hold 'em, and even casting a spell for some magic users involves a poker hand. Add to that a Civil War that never ended, a second gold rush, shamanistic natives who can call on the help of the spirits, and a liberal sprinkling of steampunk, and you've got a setting that's nothing of not unique.

As for editions, I much prefer the Savage Worlds version. The classic system was great and all, but very complicated at times and required fistfulls of dice just about every time you rolled for something. Combat ran slowly, even with the playing cards speeding it up, and that never really sat right with me for a game about fast-drawing gunfighters slinging hot lead.

I've had a metric ton of fun with Deadlands, but as always, it really does depend on the group. If you get a group and a GM who really understand the Western and Horror genres, and can be properly descriptive, it's a blast. With someone who just wants a "line 'em up and knock 'em down" game, and treats Deadlands monsters like they're in a computer game, it'll leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Kafen]

My DM and I were discussing non-d20 games today, and, what with my recent love of the West thanks to Red Dead Redemption, I looked up Deadlands. This game sounds awesome, with a fantastic premise and neat, flavorful mechanics. Has anyone played it? If so, what are your thoughts on the system itself, editions, and how much crazy fun (if any) it is?

Thanks in advance!

Savage Worlds Version: Rock solid fun! The drawbacks are mostly in regards to finding the materials at this point. Otherwise, the system is robust and carries the full western genre flavor and a good pace of game play which lets players do all the things that they see on tv without severe rule debates. Basically... As long as the GM is on his toes, players have a short learning curve for the system and lots of room to do both silly things and expand on their character concept.

D20 Version: Okay Fun... It places a reasonably complete ruleset into one book. The GM has to be good for the game to be great as the system is bulky and bogs down during 'fast' action scenes. Stage coach fights are a good example. The d20 mechanics provide for a solid chase scene with the full actions, but the pace on this level is slow. It's tough to keep the attentions of the players at this point.

Speaking for myself, I shift a lot of the mechanical rolling to the GM in D20. That way, I can roll, fake results, and alter the scene to tell a good story without losing the attention of the players.

Both game systems are good fun at the end of the day as long as the players are into the genre and the GM does not suck. The only real barrier you face in my opinion is over coming player game system bias. If you have players with open minds, I would go with Savage Worlds. If you have players that love D20, I would go with D20.

*not touching classic DL bit*

 

[deganawida]

So, Savage Worlds seems to be the consensus on the ruleset to use? I've never played SW; what kind of buy-in would we be looking at it, both financially and in learning? Glad to see that the SW version keeps the playing cards, which I just thought was awesome when I read about it on Wikipedia.

Also, is there a difference in setting amongst the rulesets? See, I am almost exclusively D&D, and am used to rulesets changing the fluff as well as the crunch. If there is any difference, is it major or minor?

Thank you again!

 

[Desdichado]

There's a Savage Worlds [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Worlds-Explorers-S2P10010-Staff/dp/0979245567/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275598451&sr=8-1"]complete rulebook[/ame] is actually really pretty cheap. Heckuva lot cheaper than the [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Deadlands-Reloaded-Savage-Worlds-S2P10200/dp/0976360160/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275598533&sr=1-5"]Deadlands [/ame]book, actually. You don't need anything besides those two books, though, and even the "expensive" one isn't that bad. Especially compared to investing in D&D.

 

[Kafen]

Also, is there a difference in setting amongst the rulesets? See, I am almost exclusively D&D, and am used to rulesets changing the fluff as well as the crunch. If there is any difference, is it major or minor?

From my own game, the original game has a lot of content in general. It's on and off in quality. The d20 version comes along and pulls the 'most' exciting content out of the older set. The Reloaded edition, Savage Worlds, seems to contain most of the good aspects of the entire run.

 

[AngryMojo]

It's also worth mentioning that soon, I'm not sure when, Pinnacle will be re-releasing Deadlands Reloaded with some updates, erratta, and splitting it into two books, a Player's Guide and Marshall's Handbook. Interviews say there's a little bit of new content, but not a huge amount. The new stuff will be available online for free.

 

[coyote6]

Note that Deadlands Reloaded (the Savage Worlds version of the game) is being reprinted this summer, in separate player's and GM's books. I believe said books will also be the same general size as the SW Explorer's Edition, which is about 5" x 7", IIRC. I may be misremembering the size of the new books, though. I was misremembering; according to this post on their boards, they'll be full-size hardcovers.

Edit: Whoops, teach me to hit quick reply, then get distracted for ten minutes.

 

[TheNovaLord]

The setting and premise is fantastic

DLR using savage world gave it the system it really needed

go for it