Iron Sky
Procedurally Generated
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D&D 4E I'm here 4e and left wondering....
- Thread starter someguyfromohio
- Start date
There are those of us who liked 4th Ed fine for the couple of years it has been out, but don't so much anymore with the recent (as of the past few months) heavy errata and revisions that make the core books inaccurate in many ways, and just plain don't like the new direction the game seems to be going in. 4.5 is pretty much happening, but WoTC isn't being upfront about it.
When terms like nerf, buff, and patch became applicable to PnP 4th Ed, I lost interest.
When terms like nerf, buff, and patch became applicable to PnP 4th Ed, I lost interest.
someguyfromohio
Explorer
"nerf, buff, and patch" ?
Stealth was readjusted. 1/2 of 1% of powers and 1/3rd of 1% of feats readjusted, and various typos/add a sentence here and there for monsters.
Samir
Explorer
D&D 4e has been out for 2 years. Everybody who didn't like it has pretty much stopped trolling D&D forums and moved on with their life (including a certain king-killer who will not be named).
As such, the vast majority of the people you see on forums such as this one and the WotC 4e community are pro-4e, for the simple reason that they play it and that's why they're posting here.
The amount of errata seems to be taken grossly out of proportion. Rechan's stats are right, a very tiny part of the game has been updated, but even that amount seems high to people used to WotC's old 3.5e policy of changing virtually nothing, balance and errors be damned.
As such, the vast majority of the people you see on forums such as this one and the WotC 4e community are pro-4e, for the simple reason that they play it and that's why they're posting here.
The amount of errata seems to be taken grossly out of proportion. Rechan's stats are right, a very tiny part of the game has been updated, but even that amount seems high to people used to WotC's old 3.5e policy of changing virtually nothing, balance and errors be damned.
Mephistopheles
First Post
I used to feel the same, as evidenced by my decidedly anti-4E posting on these boards leading up to its release.
I eventually put my preconceptions on the shelf and gave it a shot: while it doesn't feel quite like D&D to me I enjoy it on its own merits regardless of what it's called. I enjoy the optimization aspects of character creation, party composition and tactical situations; I enjoy that outside of combat the role play is the same as it ever was. For me it hasn't replaced older editions - I play 1E as well as 4E - but it has brought something new to the table.
I'd agree with those advising you to judge it in play rather than by text. Give it a go - at worst you say "no thanks", at best you've got a new game to have some fun with.
Another 4e hater here, after I DM'ed my regular playing group straight into a TPK (KOTS- Irontooth), our first TPK in 20-something years of gaming- we all hated 4e. Never again... Never, ever... ever.
And then I played again, and then again- and as a DM it's so easy to throw something together quite quickly, of course I had to get all new players but that went okay as well.
My present players Cleave and 'Insertpowernamehere' all the time, but they also still swing from the rafters, get involved in fist fights with metal dragons and roleplay up the wazoo. So different but the same.
And read the books- read the books, I haven't read a rules book all the way through since, ahem... actually I've never read a rule book all the way through and I've just counted I have 22 hardbook 4e books on my shelf, all of which I've read the bit that I've needed to know at the time I've needed to know it.
You're not supposed to read them all the way through anyway- are you. Who could possibly remember all that nonsense anyway.
And the stuff about the errata having made 4e into 4.5e, sorry but what errata- never seen it, didn't even know it existed.
I'm not big on rules in the real world and I don't need to keep up with whatever missive WOTC are sending out at the time, just play it and fix the bits you don't like.
Isn't there a rule that says something like 'and if you don't like the rule then ignore it...' See I remembered that one.
And then I played again, and then again- and as a DM it's so easy to throw something together quite quickly, of course I had to get all new players but that went okay as well.
My present players Cleave and 'Insertpowernamehere' all the time, but they also still swing from the rafters, get involved in fist fights with metal dragons and roleplay up the wazoo. So different but the same.
And read the books- read the books, I haven't read a rules book all the way through since, ahem... actually I've never read a rule book all the way through and I've just counted I have 22 hardbook 4e books on my shelf, all of which I've read the bit that I've needed to know at the time I've needed to know it.
You're not supposed to read them all the way through anyway- are you. Who could possibly remember all that nonsense anyway.
And the stuff about the errata having made 4e into 4.5e, sorry but what errata- never seen it, didn't even know it existed.
I'm not big on rules in the real world and I don't need to keep up with whatever missive WOTC are sending out at the time, just play it and fix the bits you don't like.
Isn't there a rule that says something like 'and if you don't like the rule then ignore it...' See I remembered that one.
FireLance
Legend
In my view, the mechanics of the game have changed significantly, but the adventure, problem-solving and roleplaying elements (things which the rules can at best give guidelines for) have remained the same.
Some of what I would consider to be the key mechanical changes are as follows.
Some of what I would consider to be the key mechanical changes are as follows.
Powers: In addition to abilities that can be used at will (such as a normal attack with a weapon) and abilities that are regained after a night's rest (such as prepared spells in 3e and earlier editions) 4E has encounter abilities that are regained after a short 5-minute rest. In addition, all characters have at-will, encounter and daily abilities: fighters have at-will, encounter and daily weapon attacks, and wizards have at-will, encounter and daily spells.
Uniform Advancement: PCs tend to advance at the same rate. Unlike previous editions, where a fighter's attack bonus or THACO would improve faster than a wizard's, 4E PCs gain bonuses to attacks, defenses and skill checks at the same rate. In addition, most PCs gain additional encounter and daily powers at the same rate too. Do note that in spite of the uniform rate of advancement, many PCs start with advantages (proficiencies, complementary ability scores, bonuses from their class, etc.) which allow them to maintain a relative advantage in the areas which they are supposed to be good at compared to the other PCs.
Character Toughness: Low-level characters in 4E tend to be hardier than low-level characters in earlier editions, in the sense that it usually takes more than a single lucky hit from a monster to put them down, and once down, it is relatively easier for them to come back up, either during the fight or after it. It does not mean that individual fights are easier to win (that really depends on the relative strrength between the PCs and their opponents), but it does make chance less of a factor in determining the outcome of the fights.
Character Complexity: At the same time, low-level characters in 4E tend to be more complex than low-level characters in earlier editions. A typical 1st-level character will have access to two at-will powers, one encounter power and one daily power from his class, and another power from his race, in addition to "standard" options such as making a basic attack, making a charge attack, taking a second wind, and spending an action point (if he has one available).
Uniform Advancement: PCs tend to advance at the same rate. Unlike previous editions, where a fighter's attack bonus or THACO would improve faster than a wizard's, 4E PCs gain bonuses to attacks, defenses and skill checks at the same rate. In addition, most PCs gain additional encounter and daily powers at the same rate too. Do note that in spite of the uniform rate of advancement, many PCs start with advantages (proficiencies, complementary ability scores, bonuses from their class, etc.) which allow them to maintain a relative advantage in the areas which they are supposed to be good at compared to the other PCs.
Character Toughness: Low-level characters in 4E tend to be hardier than low-level characters in earlier editions, in the sense that it usually takes more than a single lucky hit from a monster to put them down, and once down, it is relatively easier for them to come back up, either during the fight or after it. It does not mean that individual fights are easier to win (that really depends on the relative strrength between the PCs and their opponents), but it does make chance less of a factor in determining the outcome of the fights.
Character Complexity: At the same time, low-level characters in 4E tend to be more complex than low-level characters in earlier editions. A typical 1st-level character will have access to two at-will powers, one encounter power and one daily power from his class, and another power from his race, in addition to "standard" options such as making a basic attack, making a charge attack, taking a second wind, and spending an action point (if he has one available).
Peraion Graufalke
First Post
I started with 2e about 20 years ago, was totally turned off by 3e, and 4e brought me back.
I'm killing monsters and taking their stuff, and I'm loving it!
I'm killing monsters and taking their stuff, and I'm loving it!
Neonchameleon
Legend
I agree with your first impression. My first impression was the same
But 4e plays really well. The rulebook is an instruction manual rather than a marvel of Gygaxian prose. (That said, I'll take the DMGII over the prose in any previous DMG). It's also an indy game masquerading as a mainstream one. (Think of encounter powers as once per scene signature moves). And runs on Holywood Physics, which can be a dealbreaker.
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