Half-Elf Ranger/Invoker: Mechanically Sound or Completely Insane?

[ourchair]

Exactly what it says on the title.

One of our players, who is playing a half-elf two-weapon fighting ranger wants to become an Invoker to add some controller support to our defender-heavy party.

Any thoughts on that? How does that work - mechanically or otherwise - as a character concept?

And no, "try a Seeker" instead as we've already explored that and she seems really intent on the Invoker thing.

 

[Aulirophile]

Rangers and Invokers gain zero benefit from Cha. Technically everyone benefits from Con to a degree, and it is a secondary stat for one Invoker build (though as a hybrid I doubt it'd matter). So that leaves the fact that you get no bonus to your primary attack stat for both classes, both of which like to hit as often as possible (Striker and Controller? I concede everyone likes to hit, but those roles inparticular don't like missing).

Unless you meant MCing..... presumably the Ranger is wielding two weapons? Is he having trouble keeping those weapons up to date in terms of enhancement? Normally two-weapon rangers have an issue with that. I don't imagine adding on a holy symbol and taking power swaps would help much, and his Wis score probably won't be very high....

TL;DR: Half-Elf Ranger isn't mechanically sound to begin with imo. Making it even more MAD and MID is a retarded.

 

[Myn]

It's "possible" but hardly a solid choice. The wisdom isn't going to waste as the ranger half will have some riders, but the strength does absolutely nothing for the invoker half. Not to mention that the player will have to position herself very carefully to avoid oppertunity attacks from her ranged invoker powers.

The Con from being a half-elf helps if she wants to go those covenant powers, but with nothing boosing either of her primary stats she will likely be frustrated with her inaccuracy.

If she's intent on it, there's not much you can do to turn her away. If she's more intent on the Invoker side than the Ranger side, you might be able to convince her to try a melee class with Cha or Wis as their stats; it wouldn't be too difficult to mask an avenger as a ranger-like combatant with proper refluffing.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Half-Elf: no boost to a primary stat and depending on hybrid talent choice probably not to a secondary

You need to maintain 3 weapons/implements - too expensive.

One class wants to be in melee range the other wants range.

I wouldn't want to play that character. It will probably more or less suck at everything it does.

How about a Tiefling Warlock|Wizard? Striker and Controller both ranged, a good race and one implement to rule them all. Or a Genasi Blaster Wizard.

 

[FireLance]

The Con from being a half-elf helps if she wants to go those covenant powers, but with nothing boosing either of her primary stats she will likely be frustrated with her inaccuracy.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Assuming a 50% hit rate with an ability score bonus, a character without an ability score bonus has his hit rate dropped to 45%. More inaccurate, yes. Perhaps noticably more inaccurate if the player keeps careful track of how many attacks she missed by just one point (and assuming the DM tells her in the first place). But frustratingly inaccurate? IMO, only if she obsesses over it.

To the OP: there is some synergy between an invoker and a ranger. It's not a perfect fit, but neither is it a terrible idea. Such a character would fall within the acceptable range of competence levels, at least for my games.

 

[Mentat55]

It sounds like your player is thinking of MCing into invoker, since she is already playing a half-elf ranger.

If she started with Str 16 and Wis 16, invests in heavy armor feats, and takes close burst/blast powers she can use in melee (or uses the invoker powers to add some ranged support), I think the character would work fine. However, if she has invested in Dex, and has a comparatively low Wis...then it is going to be difficult to hit with the invoker powers.

And one of her weapons can be a Bradaman's or Crusader's weapon, which lets her use that weapon as a holy symbol. I don't see that being a major hindrance.

So I guess I am in the minority. I think it could work, though there is not much synergy between rangers and invokers. But it would require a fairly specific ability score array and some feat investment.

 

[ourchair]

Rangers and Invokers gain zero benefit from Cha.

Race bonuses notwithstanding her stats are STR 16, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 12 and she's currently at LVL 5 planning LVL 6 feat. That said, she is dual-wielding melee weapons and doesnt have much problems hitting or keeping them up to date.

I think her interest is less about trying to tack on a holy symbol and new powers to compensate for existing deficiencies. Instead she wants to extend her character's functionality for AOE/Control, in the absence of a Wizard. (I killed mine off three sessions ago.)

Also what is this MID MAD people speak of?

 

[ourchair]

If she's intent on it, there's not much you can do to turn her away. If she's more intent on the Invoker side than the Ranger side, you might be able to convince her to try a melee class with Cha or Wis as their stats; it wouldn't be too difficult to mask an avenger as a ranger-like combatant with proper refluffing.

Crap, I really made a mistake in the OP.

By 'becoming' an Invoker I meant she's multiclassing.

Meaning she's already a Half-Elf Ranger and has already been playing it for five levels and plans to MC at level 6.

Your suggestion of a 'refluffed' avenger intrigues me. Perhaps rebuilding her character is the solution?

 

[Mentat55]

Maybe a monk multiclass? Still a striker, good ability score synergy, but add more AOE and control, the most of any melee striker, IMO. They have lots of bursts and blasts, pushing, sliding, etc. At least that is my impression from reading the powers and reading posts about them on EN World.

 

[Aulirophile]

Race bonuses notwithstanding her stats are STR 16, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 12 and she's currently at LVL 5 planning LVL 6 feat. That said, she is dual-wielding melee weapons and doesnt have much problems hitting or keeping them up to date.

I think her interest is less about trying to tack on a holy symbol and new powers to compensate for existing deficiencies. Instead she wants to extend her character's functionality for AOE/Control, in the absence of a Wizard. (I killed mine off three sessions ago.)

Also what is this MID MAD people speak of?

MAD is Multiple Attribute Distribution. It is when you are completely dependent on rising multiple stats (3+) higher then 12 or so, to qualify for feats/use powers effectively/etc. Polearm builds of nearly all flavors, any one who tries to cherry pick both sides of a V-class and maintain their riders (Dragonborn maxing out str+cha, and still trying to get Wis up for riders) are some easy examples.

MID is Multiple Item Dependency. There is a specific wealth curve in 4e. People who have to maintain 2 weapons get shafted, in general. People who have to maintain 3.... yeah. And she will have to pick up a holy symbol to effectively use any Invoker powers.

Her stat array is retarded if she is level 5. Assuming a 16 str, which she should've started with, her str should be 17 after the level 4 stat boost.