Completely off topic: considering a divorce and need any advice out there

[Morkul]

i was only married for a brief 3 years. got divorced in 2003 and have custody of my daughter who will turn ten in November...

i had a marital situation that was full of strife as well. honestly, children do not need to grow up around screaming and fighting. they absorb that negativity and, depending on their personality, either internalize it or eventually let it out on someone else...

before my divorce, i had an altercation with my ex in which i smashed the windshield of my own van (with my hands) while she was taking our daughter away. i went to jail with assault charges on her and my daughter, charges automatically pressed by the state of FL. got out of jail and she didnt even want our daughter, so i was granted custody by the state of FL. a few years ago, i decided i wanted to go to grad school, got into NCU at Chapel Hill, but my ex took me to court over it. needless to say, i lost the case and am chained to within 50 miles of my ex until my daughter is 18. funny thing is, at the time we went to court, my ex was $6000 behind on her child support and the magistrate still took her side. thats FL family law at work...

moral of my story: if your wife wants your daughter, she can get her easier than you can. and, depending on how they work family law cases in your state, she could have you by the balls for a long time to come, even after you are "divorced". i hope you have better luck than i did...

i would read up on family law and how your state handles situations involving custody. i would find out (A) what your chances are of getting custody, because it sounds like you want your daughter to live with you and (B) whether or not your state allows the custodial parent to move away from the non-custodial parent (for a better job or to further your education). i wanted so much to get my daughter out of this area and go get my Master's degree. if i just take her, i will be arrested for kidnapping my own child, which is total insanity...

 

[Fast Learner]

I deemed it "safe" to throw out some trash, do some dishes, and basically try to make it a bit more pleasant in the condo for her and the baby when they get home. Now, I kind of regret doing that, because if my intent is for her to notice the things I do when I'm not around anymore, the impact of the things I do is lessened if they're actually done.

It sounds like your situation is past this point already, but just for future reference: that doesn't work.

It doesn't work with roommates, it doesn't work with girlfriends or boyfriends, and it doesn't work with wives or husbands. Once a housework equilibrium (or any other kind) is obtained, choosing to not do them doesn't make the other person recognize the effort you've been putting in, it just makes them unhappy that you're not doing it now. They've already come to terms with the idea (right or wrong) that what you do and what they do is a fair trade. I say this from much experience.

On your marriage, if there's still an opportunity to salvage it and you want to try but the other person won't see a counselor, an option that sometimes works is a good relationship book -- tell her you're reading it and you'd like her to read it, too. If she'll give it a shot, you may be able to do your own counseling, at least of sorts. Even if she won't read it, it may still give you some good ideas.

A few recommendations:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Love-Languages-Secret-That-Lasts/dp/0802473156/]The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts[/ame]


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Anniversary/dp/0805087001/]Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples[/ame]


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Centering-Art-Intimacy-Handbook-Relationships/dp/0671767194/]Centering and the Art of Intimacy Handbook[/ame]


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Two-Step-Eileen-McCann/dp/0802130321/]The Two-Step, the Dance of Intimacy[/ame]
(better for a relationship that's in a little better shape than where you seem to be now, but great once you're trying to figure out why you keep fighting)

 

[nedjer]

Please get more top quality information and equip yourself to set your own agenda

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

But what do I say to the guy now? How much would this cost me?

You say to the lawyer, "I am faced with the possibility of needing to divorce my wife. I hope to work things out but I need legal advice in case it doesn't. What will that cost me?"

 

[Jack7]

A lot of people have given good advice.

Here's my personal experience.

A couple of years ago the wife and I were both considering divorce. Well, she was anyways, but I consider divorce morally and religiously anathema. Nevertheless she seemed determined about it and after a bunch of fighting and a lot of frustration I was finally to the point of giving up myself. Almost.

Finally one night I woke her up about three in the morning and told her we were either gonna have a really good marriage, or no marriage at all. I told her if she wanted to sty in the marriage she must fight and prove it. I didn't blame or push her, but I let her know there was no other choices and I was resolute.

This began a long period of reassessing and changing our marriage. Now it is excellent. Probably in the best state ever, up to and including our sexual relationship. At the time we had been married 14 years and had two children.

At that point, and our problems slowly developed over a two year period our financial, romantic, sexual, and personal relationship (with each other) was horrible and looking back on it now, sorta shameful (compared to what it should have been).

I can also tell you, as others have either said or hinted at, after childbirth, many women undergo dramatic hormonal and psychological changes. My wife was no exception. That's something you just have to be patient about, and sweat it out, as a man. I was terrifically sexually frustrated. After the birth she went back on birth control. We later found out that the chemicals (the formula) in the birth control were causing all types of hormonal and mood havoc for her, including depressing her sexual appetite. You might want to investigate this if it is the case with you. After she went off birth control, her mood and desires stabilized and eventually returned to normal.

However, personally, the tide turned for us when I demanded changes on both her part, and promised them on my part. Thus equal effort and work. But then again our marriage problems were at a far different point in our marriage than is the case with you guys.

I can also tell you this though, financial problems exacerbate other problems. Solve those problems, as a first step, and they will make solving other problems easier. I also agree with those who have said to expand your social circle, and hers as well.

I don't know your wife, so it may be an impossible situation. But it may very well not be. You'll never know unless you try.

But what you really need is a plan. Develop a plan of what problems you'll investigate first, what problems you'll try and solve first, what problems can wait, and what problems will be solved in the long run.

Without a good plan of investigation and procedure, it's very hard to achieve anything in life, cause you don't really know where you're going, what you want to achieve, how to go about it, or what your exact objectives are. A good plan can help you to come to know these factors, and knowing is half the battle. I say that jokingly, but it's true. Sit down with your wife, in a non-confrontational manner, and without taking ego insult at any of the remarks she levels at you, tell her you love her (if you do, and it sounds like you do, you're making an effort), love your child, and ask her what she really wants, and really wants from you. You'd be surprised the good this can do for one's psyche, you and hers. She may realize that you really care and are willing to work, you will get a firmer idea of her real thought processes. But you have to be firm and stay with it until she really speaks heart (assuming she will and her hormonal state is stable). But I do agree with this also. Don't raise your children in an environment of tension, distrust, and resentment. Regardless of whether you reconcile or not, don't let that be the child's experience of your relationship with each other. And tell her: you won't downplay her or be disrespectful of her, and she won't of you. Demand equal respect. It's amazing what simply being polite to one another will accomplish. That and showing love unselfishly.

This would be my process:

1. What problems are physical, chemical, biological?
2. What problems are psychological?
3. What problems are otherwise?
4. What solutions are possible and worth pursuing?
5. What can be done immediately?
6. What needs to be done over time?

If you're a religious fellow, I'd also pray. That helped me and my wife out a lot.

One thing people overlook about prayer, is that it's not just a request from God for aid, though in this case it can be, but it's also a way of vocalizing and therefore re-analyzing in a different way, mindset, and psychological and spiritual attitude, the problems that you face. So to me prayer is also a form of analysis and problem solving. Getting down on your knees also takes the focus off of you in an unselfish manner, and therefore you can look at your situation more objectively, instead of being worried about what you want at that exact moment. So it helps to develop a more long term view of a situation or event. Because you're probably not gonna solve this overnight. This may not be the case, but it may also take a couple of years of slow turnaround and steady but incremental improvement. In any case let her know what you want out of the marriage, what you think makes a good marriage, and know what she wants. Neither one of you may have nay idea of what the other really thinks and expects. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to bet that's the case. You're drifting cause neither of you know what port you're sailing for, and aren't steering by any method other than dead-reckoning. What you both need is a compass, and a chart. Know where you're going.

And that's my experience. Don't know if it helped you or not, but I'm pulling for you guys.

In any case, good luck and Godspeed. I'll pray for you both too.

And if I were you I'd relax a little, have some faith. Things went a lot better for us the moment I decided to stop vacillating, had some faith it would be okay, and started to relax. A good athlete can't perform well if he's constantly tense and upset. You can't be a good husband tense and on-edge. You're working against yourself. I know it's easy to say, and hard to do, but force yourself to relax and have a little faith. Be optimistic, rather than pessimistic and uncertain. Optimism is infectious. On the other hand so is pessimism and uncertainty.

Relax and focus on what you can do.
What you can't do, you can't do, but maybe in a month or so, you can.

So, Godspeed to you guys again.

 

[jaerdaph]

Having been in this situation many years ago, I just want to say that "staying together for the sake of the kid(s)" is probably the worst advice and the worst decision you could take or make in the long run.

Sorry to hear about your troubles and I wish you luck and eventual happiness and serenity.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I can't offer too much advice - my wife and I have had plenty of ups and downs, but never to this level - but I want to ask about something nobody has mentioned so far:

What is your (both you and your wife) level of family support? Does she talk to her mother or a sister? Is your relationship with any of her family OK such that maybe you could them ask for a bit of outside perspective on the situation based on their knowledge of your wife? Maybe they can get through where you cannot.

 

[Jack7]

What is your (both you and your wife) level of family support? Does she talk to her mother or a sister? Is your relationship with any of her family OK such that maybe you could them ask for a bit of outside perspective on the situation based on their knowledge of your wife? Maybe they can get through where you cannot.

An astute observation.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Again, thanks to all of your input and advice, everybody.

What is your (both you and your wife) level of family support? Does she talk to her mother or a sister? Is your relationship with any of her family OK such that maybe you could them ask for a bit of outside perspective on the situation based on their knowledge of your wife? Maybe they can get through where you cannot.

I have a pretty good support system, if I ever call on it. I am usually too ashamed or embarassed to admit that anything is wrong.

My Wife has nobody. Both parents passed long before I met her, she has an estranged brother, and a very elderly aunt.


Update: We really, really had it out Saturday night. She had the idea that, after talking for a few hours, we could go out to dinner and just try to relax. I didn't think it was a good idea, but went along anyway. Big mistake.

We ended up fighting in the restaurant, and before it became a big scene, I just walked out. It was cold and windy out, and I just started walking home (about 6-10 miles from the restaurant). I only left the car there because my Wife had the baby. If it had been just her and I, I would have taken the car at that point and left her there.

I ended up getting picked up by the cops about 2.5 miles into my trek home. The cop took down my information and drove me to my car, wishing me the best. It was tough. I went home to find a chained door, and just turned around and left.

A few hours later, we were texting each other (I prefer this to talking when I'm angry... you can formulate thoughts better and look back on exactly what you've said). Eventually, we agreed to do a therapy technique called "as if." "As if" encourages you to treat each other "as if" you've just met and are trying to impress each other.

I don't know if this will work, but it has been a much better life for the both of us, starting on Sunday. I only hope it stays like this.

 

[Umbran]

The only solution I see is making it a happy marriage. Which seems impossible.

If I may - this is not a solution. A happy marriage is not a panacea that fixes things that are unhealthy within people.

A happy marriage is a goal, it is a result, what may come from people who care about each other and support each other. You and your wife both seem to have individual problems - the happy marriage may come about if you team up and address the roots of those problems, not the other way around.

I have a pretty good support system, if I ever call on it. I am usually too ashamed or embarassed to admit that anything is wrong.

My wife sometimes performs with a dance troupe. At one point, she did a piece with her snake - a 5' long ball python. Now, working with animals has risks, as we saw one night - as she's performing, the snake took a huge leak all over the stage, piddling everywhere, almost hitting the front row of the audience.

My wife, of course, was mortified. But somehow she finished her number without missing a beat, we got a mop to clean the stage between acts, and the show went on. She learned a very simple lesson - you cannot die from embarrassment.

My Wife has nobody. Both parents passed long before I met her, she has an estranged brother, and a very elderly aunt.

That is not good. See below.

"As if" encourages you to treat each other "as if" you've just met and are trying to impress each other.

I don't know if this will work, but it has been a much better life for the both of us, starting on Sunday. I only hope it stays like this.

This may be useful. In the middle of stress, it can be devilishly easy to remember all the things that are annoying to you, and hard to see those things that brought you together in the first place.

But let us be clear - this will not address the root problems you two have. It may help alleviate the acute difficulties between you for the moment, but the underlying sources of stress are still there. Eventually, they'll need attention, or you'll just wind up back where you are now.

For example, she's still isolated. It is not physically possible for you and a baby to be an entire world for her. She needs to have a world of her own to interact with. I don't know how you'll find one, but it sounds like she needs one, badly.

If your "as if" works, and you see some caring grow again between you, maybe you can address this - help her find a mother's support group, hunt until you find some form of day-care you can afford that gives her some personal freedom. As you do your "as if", get out where you have to interact with the rest of the human race.