Completely off topic: considering a divorce and need any advice out there

[krunchyfrogg]

(going based solely on what is written here, as well have having no real experience that qualifies me to give actual advice ....)

1) (as others have said) regarding the wife, i was also thinking about depression as i read that -- as you said, it did seem to pick up after the child was born.
2) the wife quit her job for the child and has no social circle, so there is the possibility that either
-- a) she is simply stressed (no outlet to deal with the major change you both just incurred since she is always home with the child) or
-- b) she is resentful (having to give up other aspects of her life for this change)
3) She is mad at you but has yet to communicate to you that she is angry (either for something big, or something small, or several small things, or for how 'life' is going, etc)
4) Some other topic that coincides with all this that you aren't yet realizing the full effect of (perhaps money got tighter when the baby was born and she quit her job?)
5) a combination of 1 & 2a & 2b & 3 & 4?

She's definitely angry, and says it's about me, but when I ask her directly, it's either something minute that doesn't warrant that level of animosity, or it's something irrational. Maybe she resents not being at work, but when she was working, she'd always be complaining about the job. We obviously have less money coming in, but neither of us is a big spender, and we both live within our means. I usually pick up saturdays at my old job for the extra cash. Saying this brings up a whole other issue between us: my Wife insists on paying the bills, and taking care of anything financial. But she just doesn't do it. My cards get rejected, and I have to call the bank to transfer funds so I can buy food. Not only is it a frustrating experience, it's extremely embarassing.

Was there any activity (before the child) that your wife enjoyed as an outlet?
(be it physical or craft related ) - perhaps there's a nonobvious way you could watch the baby for the night while she goes out to relax (i say nonobvious because you've said that she's already against consoling, so going out for the expressed purpose of relaxing from pent up anger/stress rather than "just because" may gain some distrust or annoyance )

She love tennis, and I've never held her back from going, before or after the baby.

Does she know that you go for counseling? I know this will sound silly but I know for my parents, if my father was going for counseling, then my mother would just get more angry for a) sharing details with a stranger, and b) every day my dad goes out for consoling, it is a reminder that something is 'wrong' and thus revisiting all the reasons they are fighting in the first place even though she may have gotten over it weeks ago

She's fine with it, it was actually her suggestion and I initially went just to make her happy. After going for 6 months now, I've come to realize some issues of my own and are working on them. I've made a lot of improvement, but if you were to ask my wife, it's not where the improvement really needs to be made (which, IMHO, again points to the fact that she needs help too).

From what you know of your wife, think back to before the newborn -- what were some of her more stressful moments (be it with you, at work, etc), and what were her coping mechanisms to deal with that? Did she normally retreat until all was clear, did she normally take offensive stances, did she normally talk things out, etc ? Or on a smaller scale, if the waiter brought her something wrong at a restaurant, did she argue with the waiter, talk it out calmly, or just quietly drink/eat the incorrect thing that she didn't order? (though bigger scale examples are better for you to think of if you can).

She would initially shut down in a highly stressful situation, and then really go at it. She's a procrastinator to the nth degree. Pulls all-nighters whenever needed (and she's the one who gets herself into these all-nighter situations by procrastinating).

She would calmly talk to the waiter at times, other times retreat and just complain about it.

A few weeks ago, we went to a restaurant and they had taken her favorite appetizer off the menu -- something she was really looking forward to. All we had ordered up to that point was two iced teas.

She complained that there was nothing on the menu she liked. Instead of just getting up and leaving (leaving a few bucks on the table for the iced teas), which was my suggestion, she would rather just sit there and be unhappy the whole meal. To top it off, her attitude rubbed off on the baby, so I was carrying a crying baby in a restaurant trying to calm her down.

and, finally, if it does come to divorce (if possible, save it as a last resort option given the presence of the child), be sure it's what you want and then lawyer up. Even the friendliest of things with the best intentions of good faith can go badly as it gets more emotional.

Thanks. A lot of guys tell me to do this. It's really not what I want.


It's 10:45 am now, and I'm in the public library surfing the 'net, just trying to pass time. Pretty depressing.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

#1
Whatever else you do - get a lawyer NOW. Whether or not you solve your marital problems, if it comes to divorce you NEED legal advice on the matter.

But what do I say to the guy now? How much would this cost me?

#2
Go to counseling ALONE if she won't go with you.

Already do, my man.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

Right now, my plan is to just stay away and hope that she misses me enough to call and try to work things out. I'm too angry to go back and talk with her now, and she's locked me out of the condo anyway.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

A few weeks ago, I had resigned myself to us getting a divorce. After attending the ren faire (see a few posts down), I decided to do everything I can to save this marriage. I would still like to think I'm in that mindset.

When I was at the Ren Faire, I caught up with the guy who was my best man. He's only a couple of years older than me, but he was married very shortly after high school because he got his girlfriend pregnant. The two ended up getting divorced before the baby was old enough to ever remember them together.

Fast forward to the present day.

The mother never worked, all these years, living off of my best friends child support and her boyfriend. The daughter is now 17, and just graduated high school. She suddenly changed her mind about going to college, and spends her free time drinking and getting into trouble. My friend believes his ex wife encouraged their daughter to put off attending college because in NY, apparently he'd still have to pay child support until their child goes to college.

While I know that my Wife is different from my friends' ex (my Wife would sooner lock our future daughter in the basement than let her go out and get drunk at 17), and would never try to live her life mooching off of others, my biggest fear, if I go through with divorcing her, is having my daughter develop social/emotional problems.

 

[Viking Bastard]

And you don't think she'd have social/emotional problems if brought up in an unhappy marriage?

There's no simple solution here, but I've know too many depressed kids messed up by their parents decision to 'stay together for the kids'.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

And you don't think she'd have social/emotional problems if brought up in an unhappy marriage?

There's no simple solution here, but I've know too many depressed kids messed up by their parents decision to 'stay together for the kids'.

I agree. You're completely right.

The only solution I see is making it a happy marriage. Which seems impossible.

 

[Ghostwind]

I'm going through a divorce right now so I have a good perspective on things. From everything you have said about your wife, it sounds like textbook depression. She definitely needs to get some counseling, even if it is just her going.

I don't know the divorce laws in Illinois but you should definitely sit down and have a consultation with an attorney versed in family law. Most lawyers do not charge for an initial consultation. Make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into. I don't know if Illinois has alimony, but you could wind up paying her X dollars until she remarries. Then you have child support. Since she is the primary caregiver, you will be expected to pay child support unless you choose to go for sole legal custody. One more thing to consider (and this varies by state) is if you move out before anything is done legally, she could claim abandonment, which could hurt you in court regarding support, visitation, etc.

My situation is a little different than yours in that our divorce is amicable. We have agreed on joint legal custody with her being the primary. We are mostly in agreement regarding the division of assets/debts. Because of all of this, the attorney costs will likely only be around $900. If there is anything that will be contested, then the $$$ goes way up.

You will have people tell you to stay for the sake of your daughter. I did that for several years and it does not get easier. You will just become more unhappy unless your spouse is willing to change her behaviors in an effort to make the marriage work. You will have to ask yourself what is the price for your happiness? If you can find a way to be happy in your current state of affairs, then give it a go and see if you can make it work. But, after careful deliberation, if you decide that you cannot be happy anymore then don't be afraid to initiate things.

If you need to vent or talk, just PM me.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

I'm going through a divorce right now so I have a good perspective on things. From everything you have said about your wife, it sounds like textbook depression. She definitely needs to get some counseling, even if it is just her going.

I don't know the divorce laws in Illinois but you should definitely sit down and have a consultation with an attorney versed in family law. Most lawyers do not charge for an initial consultation. Make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into. I don't know if Illinois has alimony, but you could wind up paying her X dollars until she remarries. Then you have child support. Since she is the primary caregiver, you will be expected to pay child support unless you choose to go for sole legal custody. One more thing to consider (and this varies by state) is if you move out before anything is done legally, she could claim abandonment, which could hurt you in court regarding support, visitation, etc.

My situation is a little different than yours in that our divorce is amicable. We have agreed on joint legal custody with her being the primary. We are mostly in agreement regarding the division of assets/debts. Because of all of this, the attorney costs will likely only be around $900. If there is anything that will be contested, then the $$$ goes way up.

You will have people tell you to stay for the sake of your daughter. I did that for several years and it does not get easier. You will just become more unhappy unless your spouse is willing to change her behaviors in an effort to make the marriage work. You will have to ask yourself what is the price for your happiness? If you can find a way to be happy in your current state of affairs, then give it a go and see if you can make it work. But, after careful deliberation, if you decide that you cannot be happy anymore then don't be afraid to initiate things.

If you need to vent or talk, just PM me.

How would you approach her to suggest she get some counseling? Everything I've tried has failed.

BTW, sorry for misleading, I actually live in NJ. The "Shermer, Illinois" was a joke, and now it's a very old joke (it's been a long time since I was active on these forums). Update made.

I don't know what to do about the abandonment issue. Am I better off staying with her screaming at me, telling me to get out? Or am I better off just leaving (for the baby's sake, much less hers, my own, and all the neighbors... our condo is a glorified apartment)?

I will be taking you up on the PMs. Make sure your inbox has some space in the near future! Thanks!

-----------

BTW, I'm posting from home right now. I decided to stop in to get some clothes, so I would at least be able to wear something fresh tomorrow. I was surprised to find the chain off the door, and I walked right in. My wife was getting ready to go out with the baby, which might have been the reason for the chain off the door. I said "I won't be in your way, I'm just here for some of my things". Neither of us said a word to each other after that, and she walked out after just a few minutes.

The moment she left, I made sure she heard me locking and chaining the door with her still in the hallway. That was proof enough to me (moments later) that I'm still extremely angry with her. I know now it was an immature reaction. Anyway, she left and I saw her drive away.

I deemed it "safe" to throw out some trash, do some dishes, and basically try to make it a bit more pleasant in the condo for her and the baby when they get home. Now, I kind of regret doing that, because if my intent is for her to notice the things I do when I'm not around anymore, the impact of the things I do is lessened if they're actually done. Oh well, it's not like I'm going to put the trash back now.

I took out the anniversary gift I got her, and displayed it on the dining room table.

Right about then, I noticed a text message from her. It read:
"What do you want?"
Me: I want you to call your friends and have dinner with them tonight. It's been far too long since you've seen them, and they'd love to see the baby. It would do you good to go out and socialize with some other people. I know when I went to the Ren Faire and hung out with Matt for a few hours it was very refreshing and made me feel really good.

Her: I am outside now to talk to you

Me: I want it to work between us, but that's not going to happen right now.
There's too much anger, sadness, and resentment.
We need time apart. If we are going to work, I need you to realize my value.

Her: goodbye for good

Her: good riddance

Me: (quoting good riddance): my point is proven.
I'll still talk, but I don't think it's a good idea.

I still haven't heard back after that.

I don't know if I should stay here, or head back to my job (40 min drive). I really don't think talking is what's best right now. It will just lead to more hurt feelings. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

 

[nedjer]

I agree. You're completely right.

The only solution I see is making it a happy marriage. Which seems impossible.

The focus on you, self-isolation, cash control . . . There's possibly quite a lot to understand. Real good psychologist and strip-mining all available high quality data might help in a Plato's Cave kind of way.

 

[Ghostwind]

How would you approach her to suggest she get some counseling? Everything I've tried has failed.

I don't know what to do about the abandonment issue. Am I better off staying with her screaming at me, telling me to get out? Or am I better off just leaving (for the baby's sake, much less hers, my own, and all the neighbors... our condo is a glorified apartment)?

I will be taking you up on the PMs. Make sure your inbox has some space in the near future! Thanks!

I don't know if I should stay here, or head back to my job (40 min drive). I really don't think talking is what's best right now. It will just lead to more hurt feelings. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

Unless a lawyer advises you otherwise, my advice is to remain in the house no matter what. Taking things a step farther, if she decides that she wants to leave ask that your daughter remain with you in the house. If she is willing to do that, it shifts the abandonment issue onto her rather than you.

At this point, document everything. Save the text messages and answering machine messages if you can. You need to lay a foundation of showing that you are willing to try to work things out and that she is not. From what you have said so far, she has some control issues and likely blames you as the target of her unhappiness.