Two Essentials Questions

[Doc Eldritch]

These are two things that have come up for me in reading over the Essentials books I got for xmas. Great version of 4e, love it so far (it 'grabbed' me more than the original PHB did), but there are a couple small points that jumped out when I was plotting a game.

First, do you think that an Essentials build for some of the other classes would be useful (such as the Warlord and Bard)? Meaning a build, like the current Essentials classes, that attempts to maintain the flavor of the class but simplified in terms of bloat (cause if you are honest, you do have to admit that core 4e has a LOT of options out there, which many see as bloat).

Secondly, how would you handle classes that do not have dailies (a surprising number of the Essentials classes do not have traditional daily powers), gaining feats or abilities that let them swap a daily?
I'll use the Slayer as an example, cause I've been puttering with this. For encounter power swapping, I've figured I'll let someone switch out one of their "Improved Power Strike" features. ie, they lose an extra use of Power Strike and in exchange get an extra encounter attack power. Further gains of "improved power strike" can give an extra encounter use of one of the encounter attack powers they know. That part is pretty easy. But what if they get a theme, multiclass feat, or want to take a new paragon path that lets them swap a daily? They have no dailies, and I don't see anything in their features that jumps at me as a good replacement to swap!

So I'm wondering if anyone else has given thought to this. It is not just the fighters, either. The rogue has no dailies that I saw, either. Not sure about the classes in the FK book, as I've not had a chance to do more than scan through it.

While I do like the idea of an "Essentials only" game, I also want to pull in some other options (like Multiclassing and a few extra powers for diversity), as well as the whole concept of Themes from Dark Sun, so have been pondering this a bit!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

WotC is putting out Essentialized versions of the PH1 classes in an upcoming product. I don't recall the name.

 

[Droogie128]

WotC is putting out Essentialized versions of the PH1 classes in an upcoming product. I don't recall the name.

It's the class compendium, which is rumored to be cancelled. It doesn't appear on the 2011 catalog anymore.

 

[Dice4Hire]

So I'm wondering if anyone else has given thought to this. It is not just the fighters, either. The rogue has no dailies that I saw, either. Not sure about the classes in the FK book, as I've not had a chance to do more than scan through it.

While I do like the idea of an "Essentials only" game, I also want to pull in some other options (like Multiclassing and a few extra powers for diversity), as well as the whole concept of Themes from Dark Sun, so have been pondering this a bit!

Well, some of the Essentials classes do get class features at higher levels that could possibly be used to swap out for a daily power. That is my only thought on this.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

Yup, some do get features that might sub out, but it seems like half do not, which is the big issue for me. Luckily not something I have to figure out right this second, so I have time to work on it.

 

[Destil]

Heroes of Sword and Spell is supposed to have rules for essentials multiclassing that should deal with the various power swap options. Maybe even hybrid class builds, if we're lucky.

This is, naturally, contingent on it still existing.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Heroes of Sword and Spell is supposed to have rules for essentials multiclassing that should deal with the various power swap options. Maybe even hybrid class builds, if we're lucky.

This is, naturally, contingent on it still existing.

Or ever having existed in the first place, as some have speculated.

I hope it does. I would like to see these multiclassin, power-swapping, and, as you point out, hybrid rules, if we're lucky.

 

[I'm A Banana]

First, do you think that an Essentials build for some of the other classes would be useful (such as the Warlord and Bard)?

It'd be sexy. Not sure if it'll happen or not, but it'd be sexy.

Secondly, how would you handle classes that do not have dailies (a surprising number of the Essentials classes do not have traditional daily powers), gaining feats or abilities that let them swap a daily?

If you're looking for a broad answer, the RAW is "They can't do that." No dailies to swap = no ability to power-swap dailies.

If you're just looking for something to use in your home games, I'd say eyeball it, and make a choice you're happy with.

If it was up to me, I'd probably just tell them not to bother with the current multiclassing gobbledegook. If they want to dabble in another class, I'd be tempted to let them spend a feat and gain a power from another class based on the following motif:

• Gain a trait/feature for spending a feat. Congrats, you've earned it. These are always-on effects like proficiencies.
• At-Will powers (and features that work like at-will powers) can be used 1/encounter.
• Encounter powers (and features that work like encounter powers) can be used if you spend a healing surge.
• Daily powers (and features that work like daily powers) can be used if you spend an action point.

So if your Slayer wanted to take, say, Fireball, he totes could do that, and then he could spend an Action Point to use it.

If a Thief wanted to pick up a Warlock's encounter power, he could spend a Healing Surge to use it.

If someone's Warpriest wanted to take Magic Missile, they could, it would just be an Encounter power.

If a Hunter ranger wanted to gain a Rogue's bonus with Shuriken, he can just spend the feat.

I'm pretty comfortable with that.

 

[Doc Eldritch]

It'd be sexy. Not sure if it'll happen or not, but it'd be sexy.




If you're looking for a broad answer, the RAW is "They can't do that." No dailies to swap = no ability to power-swap dailies.

If you're just looking for something to use in your home games, I'd say eyeball it, and make a choice you're happy with.

If it was up to me, I'd probably just tell them not to bother with the current multiclassing gobbledegook. If they want to dabble in another class, I'd be tempted to let them spend a feat and gain a power from another class based on the following motif:

• Gain a trait/feature for spending a feat. Congrats, you've earned it. These are always-on effects like proficiencies.
• At-Will powers (and features that work like at-will powers) can be used 1/encounter.
• Encounter powers (and features that work like encounter powers) can be used if you spend a healing surge.
• Daily powers (and features that work like daily powers) can be used if you spend an action point.

So if your Slayer wanted to take, say, Fireball, he totes could do that, and then he could spend an Action Point to use it.

If a Thief wanted to pick up a Warlock's encounter power, he could spend a Healing Surge to use it.

If someone's Warpriest wanted to take Magic Missile, they could, it would just be an Encounter power.

If a Hunter ranger wanted to gain a Rogue's bonus with Shuriken, he can just spend the feat.

I'm pretty comfortable with that.

That sounds like a pretty good idea, and kind of the way my brain was headed too. I'm thinking for multiclass feats, I might just rewrite them from the ground up, see what I come up with. I like the idea of spending surges/action points to access a class feature which has no counterpart in your own class (dailies for fighters for instance).

Themes are another option I'm looking at. I'm already thinking that a lot of the old 2e Kits would map over to generic fantasy themes really well, and some of that would work as multiclass too, kinda. Like a "barbarian" theme, giving some kind of minor rage power to start, and then having a list of swappable powers to expand on that later.
Would not work for alll classes, but would work for some, I suspect.