A few Essential Questions Consolidated

[gjnave]

1) Essentials Theif - Backstab: Ok.. so am I correct in saying that the thief does NOT have the sneak attack (per round) attack that the Rogue does? But is instead replaced with a once per encounter backstab?

2) So.. theoretically, Essentials classes can take powers from their equivalent class ala 4e original? However, the original classes cannot take Essential powers? (ie. Mage can take wizard powers, but wizard cant take mage powers)

3) I still havent seen the Essential books yet (grr...) however, i got to glimpse something online (d100). What i saw was that some classes (when choosing, say a Daily power at a higher level), only have 1 essential power to choose from? Is that correct or am i seeing incomplete info?

I know i have more questions, but cant think of them. I'll likely post more later

thanks!

 

[OnlineDM]

1. Incorrect. The thief still gets Sneak Attack. Backstab replaces the encounter power that a non-Essentials rogue would get. Also, Sneak Attack is one per TURN now, not just once per round.

2. Essentials classes can take equivalent non-Essentials powers, and non-Essentials classes can take equivalent Essentials powers. However, keep in mind that a lot of what we see as "at-will powers" for Essentials classes are no-level class features (rather than level 1 at-will powers). You can't take powers from a different class if they don't have a level. So a non-Essentials rogue can't take any of the thief's special movement tricks and a thief can't take any of the rogue's level 1 at-will attack powers.

With non-Essentials wizards and mages, it's easier. They both get level 1 at-will powers, level 1 encounter powers, level 1 daily powers, etc. They can choose from the same shared pool when picking those powers. They can't pick each other's class features (orb/wand/staff/tome abilities for non-Essentials wizards, school specialization for mages), but they can pick one another's powers.

3. It is correct that Essentials classes have fewer choices, especially things like the thief, knight, slayer, scout, hunter, and a few others. Their progression tends to be more like, "Welcome to level X! You get this additional class feature now," rather than "Welcome to level X! Choose one of the following daily powers now..." That's by design - these classes are intended to be simpler to build, without as much overwhelming choice.

If you want more build choices, go for non-Essentials. If you want streamlined choices that will work well together pretty much no matter what you pick, go for Essentials. The builds have different feels to them, but they're all 4e and fun.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

1. Incorrect. The thief still gets Sneak Attack. Backstab replaces the encounter power that a non-Essentials rogue would get. Also, Sneak Attack is one per TURN now, not just once per round.

Also, Backstab is only once-per-encounter up until level 3. A high level Thief can have as many as four uses per encounter, and there might be some feats that allow additional uses (though I know of none.)

 

[BobTheNob]

2. Essentials classes can take equivalent non-Essentials powers, and non-Essentials classes can take equivalent Essentials powers. However, keep in mind that a lot of what we see as "at-will powers" for Essentials classes are no-level class features (rather than level 1 at-will powers). You can't take powers from a different class if they don't have a level. So a non-Essentials rogue can't take any of the thief's special movement tricks and a thief can't take any of the rogue's level 1 at-will attack powers.

Careful though. You have to have the option of picking. For instance the knight cant go swapping out "Power Strike" for other fighter powers.

If an essentials class doesnt have the option to pick in the first place, you cant go swapping.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Careful though. You have to have the option of picking. For instance the knight cant go swapping out "Power Strike" for other fighter powers.

If an essentials class doesnt have the option to pick in the first place, you cant go swapping.

Right, in the case of say a Knight you have only choices of utility powers. So a Knight can at level 2 pick any of the fighter level 2 utility powers from Essentials, from PHB1, etc. Likewise at level 2 a PHB1 Fighter could pick one of the utility powers from HotFL or HotFK. The Knight never gets at-will, encounter, or daily power choices so it can't get access to any of those powers from other books and has no such choices in Essentials for the PHB1 fighter to pick from. There may be some ways a Knight can get access to a power. In that case the character could use it to get Fighter powers. The Knight could also take a Paragon Path from PHB1 and would get those powers.

For Mages, which have a full power range of power selections, all choices are open both ways. A Mage is really just a Wizard with very slightly different class features.

 

[OnlineDM]

Careful though. You have to have the option of picking. For instance the knight cant go swapping out "Power Strike" for other fighter powers.

If an essentials class doesnt have the option to pick in the first place, you cant go swapping.

Right, that's what I said. If it's a no-level class feature, then you can't swap it. That includes the knight's Power Strike, the thief's movement tricks, the knight's stances like Defend the Line, etc.

You can only swap things that have a level and a power type that the other build gets. So yes, a Level 2 Utility Power - there you have choices and can take other Fighter Level 2 Utility Powers or Rogue Level 2 Utility Powers (depending on your class). No level = no swapping.

 

[MrMyth]

3) I still havent seen the Essential books yet (grr...) however, i got to glimpse something online (d100). What i saw was that some classes (when choosing, say a Daily power at a higher level), only have 1 essential power to choose from? Is that correct or am i seeing incomplete info?

Most have generally 3 or 4 options per level, though some have less. For example, if you are a Warpriest, you would get Sun Burst as your level 1 encounter if you had the Sun Domain, or Thundering Steel instead if you had the Storm Domain.

However - while listed as the default choice, they aren't actually set in stone. You could instead take the other level 1 cleric encounter power, or any other choice from the PHB, Divine Power, etc.

They are default choices mainly for ease of use of new players, but if you want to choose other powers, the option is there.

 

[Lord Ernie]

However - while listed as the default choice, they aren't actually set in stone. You could instead take the other level 1 cleric encounter power, or any other choice from the PHB, Divine Power, etc.

They are default choices mainly for ease of use of new players, but if you want to choose other powers, the option is there.

Note that there is still debate about this. While the CB is hardly a rules reference, it currently doesn't allow you to choose or retrain any of those power choices, and the general consensus on the Charop forums right now seems to be "we don't know for sure, so we assume it's not allowed".

That's not to say that I wouldn't allow it as a DM, of course. But per RAW, Warpriests can not choose their encounter powers.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Note that there is still debate about this. While the CB is hardly a rules reference, it currently doesn't allow you to choose or retrain any of those power choices, and the general consensus on the Charop forums right now seems to be "we don't know for sure, so we assume it's not allowed".

That's not to say that I wouldn't allow it as a DM, of course. But per RAW, Warpriests can not choose their encounter powers.

And my reading takes Eldritch Blast from the Warlocks as a precident. It is a class feature that pre-Essentials Warlocks gain Eldritch Blast (or Eldritch Strike) and an At Will associated with their pact - and they are unable to swap either of these although they are both level 1 At Will powers. Likewise Warpriests gain specific At Wills and Encounter Powers from their class and domain and so, by the precident set by the Warlock, are unable to trade these powers for others of the same level.