Less flexible ability rolls.

[Tharkon]

I am considering using the following rules to create a realistic chain of events in character creation.
And also to create some possible odd combinations that would not be existent in a min/max situation.

Instead of rolling 6 ability scores and then assigning them and choosing all character options it goes as followed.

The player rolls their score for each ability, so first Str, than Dex, etc.. then they roll twice on a table of races,
then in any order they are allowed to switch any two scores (just in case the rolled up scores don't work with any class),
and pick either of the two races, possibly applying racial modifiers to the scores after switching.
Then they are allowed to pick any class (likely one that suits their ability scores).
I'd probably also have them roll randomly for height, weight and handedness, but this does not have so much direct game influences.

Now I am considering allowing them to reroll any one score in addition to switching two of them, but only of this would be necessary to make this rule playable.
I understand not every score is as useful or has as many class possibilities, but I think the switch should be enough to cover that.

What are your opinions on this?

 

[Ranger19k]

Well, it restricts player options a bit. Some players have a certain character concept in mind when they come to the table, and your system of limiting racial options and limiting ability score assignment might force them to go into a different direction than they had intended.

There is certainly a unique roleplaying challenge associated with adjusting the roleplay to the dice-rolls as opposed to the other way around, and some people will prefer that. Others won't.

I would be careful to ensure that you are not forcing someone to play in a direction that they don't want to. But, as long as you know your players and they are all OK with having their options limited a bit, I see absolutely nothing wrong with doing it the way you are planning on doing it. It adds an interesting twist and a bit of randomness to the character creation process. I know that I could have fun playing that way.

 

[Jhaelen]

What are your opinions on this?

These days I don't particularly care about making it difficult for players to play what they want to play.

Ultimately, you cannot force a player to play something she's not interested in. She'll just play the character in a suicidal manner and hope to get something more to her liking with the next character.

Myself I'm using point-buy whenever it's an available option. In my experience the only reason players are ever interested in rolling for their stats is that they hope to get lucky and have above average stats.

If you don't like point-buy because you're afraid of min-maxers, using one or more standard arrays might work well.

Regarding choice of race, I've never had a problem with this. Most players I know prefer playing humans. Exotic races are chosen very rarely.

Unless the pcs are not meant to be exceptional individuals in your game, there's also no reason why there shouldn't be several with rare or unorthodox backgrounds.

 

[Gilladian]

In general my players would HATE this method. They tend to work out a party in the following manner:

Player A: I played the fighter last campaign. This time I want to be a wizard.

Player B: I'm playing a dwarf, as always. But I could be the rogue, or the cleric.

Player C: I want to try being the wizard. I haven't played one before.
Player D: I want to play a grippli rogue!

Player B: Okay, then I'll be cleric.
Player C: Oh, okay. If (A) wants to be the wizard, I'll be a fighter type. But I'm playing a paladin!

and so on. Once they've all hashed out who is what class and race, they generate their characters. That's when I give them the final details of what the campaign is going to be like, so they can work out backgrounds and how they met and such.

 

[Tharkon]

Well, it restricts player options a bit. Some players have a certain character concept in mind when they come to the table, and your system of limiting racial options and limiting ability score assignment might force them to go into a different direction than they had intended.

I will probably be instructing players not to think of characters yet when I invite them.

Ultimately, you cannot force a player to play something she's not interested in. She'll just play the character in a suicidal manner and hope to get something more to her liking with the next character.

It should not be forgotten that dying results in the loss of a level though. Nevertheless, a game is about fun, and I do want them to enjoy it.

In general my players would HATE this method. They tend to work out a party in the following manner:

Player A: I played the fighter last campaign. This time I want to be a wizard.

Player B: I'm playing a dwarf, as always. But I could be the rogue, or the cleric.

Player C: I want to try being the wizard. I haven't played one before.
Player D: I want to play a grippli rogue!

Player B: Okay, then I'll be cleric.
Player C: Oh, okay. If (A) wants to be the wizard, I'll be a fighter type. But I'm playing a paladin!

and so on. Once they've all hashed out who is what class and race, they generate their characters. That's when I give them the final details of what the campaign is going to be like, so they can work out backgrounds and how they met and such.

I generally hate it when players change or choose their classes based on what classes other players choose. I don't consider it realistic that every party of adventurers has a rogue, a cleric, a wizard, and a fighter. And I say this as a DM as well as a player. Although in an upcoming campaign I am gonna be playing in the DM asked me to change my character since it would be the 3rd Paladin in the group, which I went along with as I saw it as a reasonable exception.

The main reason I came up with this idea is that it is more realistic, and thus hoping to guide the game into being focused on role playing more than mere statistics. The only reason why I allowed players to choose from two races is to avoid the case where a player might hate a particular race. But if the character really wanted to play a rogue and his two choices were dwarf and half-orc, at first they might be disappointed, but after a while they might see that not all rogues have to be halflings.

Aside from whether or not the entire idea is a good idea, I am also wondering if, assuming the system is in use, whether or not the reroll would be neccesary to make a character playable.

 

[Dandu]

I generally hate it when players change or choose their classes based on what classes other players choose. I don't consider it realistic that every party of adventurers has a rogue, a cleric, a wizard, and a fighter.

Not very realistic, but a party of Monk, Fighter, Barbarian, and Paladin isn't really going to be able to function as well as a more balanced party. I have no problem ignoring realism when it comes to making the game with magic, giant flying energybreathing lizards, and time travel more playable.

hoping to guide the game into being focused on role playing more than mere statistics.

Explain this to your players. Ask them to go along with it. Offer rewards and incentives for RPing. Keep in mind that, at the end of the day, some people enjoy a highly tactical game of chess due to personal preference and be understanding.

You might get the same result with fewer ruffled feathers than if you decreased player control of their characters.

Aside from whether or not the entire idea is a good idea, I am also wondering if, assuming the system is in use, whether or not the reroll would be neccesary to make a character playable.

Make a few characters and see?

 

[Rhun]

I'm certainly not a fan of it. I'm in a couple of games where the abilities were generated randomly, and personally I really don't like it. I prefer being able to play the character I want to play.

Its funny...when I first started using Point Buy I really didn't like it. But now that I've been using it for several years, I'm not a big fan of going back to rolling dice for abilities. You can end up with far too much difference between the PCs, and that can lead to problems.

 

[slwoyach]

I like iron man rules, you are what your dice say you are.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I like iron man rules, you are what your dice say you are.

I prefer iron man for older editions of D&D, where there is less generation-side customization anyway. For D&D 3e (or really, for late era 2e), I prefer more customizability in all the aspects.


For the OP: Do you think that your players would be willing to go to an older (or an older school) game, such as OD&D or Swords and Wizardry? That might also help you to accomplish what you are looking for.

 

[Aluvial]

I like rolling for ability scores, but I also impose a few limitations for my players.

I wouldn't care for rolling for race... but I can see that working for at least one campaign, why not?

I let the characters roll 4d6 for each stat, and reroll and one "1." You then take the highest 3 rolls. Then I let them assign the scores and race.

Characters can not have a bonus under +5 total ability modifier (or they are rejected as being less then the heroic PC's I need for the story) or have over +10 total ability modifier, AFTER racial adjustments (that just too high for what I need in the game). I don't care what race you are, you just can't over +10 in all of your abilities.

Now, I have played that you roll 5 rolls, 4d6, reroll any one 1, take the best 3, and then you must make a roll (same rules) for Charisma. That roll is whatever that roll is. This soft of fixed the Charisma is a dump stat issue that my players abused... and I do have a lot of "social" skill checks IMC, but still, that doesn't fix all problems there.

I do allow point buys as well if a character goes that route. I think that all 12's is 24 points... I remember setting it up that I would give 24 to 27 points. Roll a d4 to determine... Or drop that to 21 to 24 points for 5 scores and still roll for the Chr (I didn't try that yet.) No one tried for this route though, they all still rolled.

D&D Point Buy Calculator

Aluvial