How to influence a group's rules usage without alienating them?

[Kzach]

So, if all goes well, which with me it usually doesn't, but if it does then I'll be joining a new group sometime in the next couple of weeks. Unfortunately, they use a very limited set of rules and have a basic agreement that you can only use it if you own it.

This conflicts with me on several levels.

For one thing, I utterly refuse to buy hard copies of 4e materials. I will subscribe to DDI and that will be my sole source of 4e material. Buying a hard copy is, to me, an incredible waste of money. I would literally prefer to burn the money than spend it on a 4e book. This isn't because I hate 4e, it's because I refuse to spend money on something that is completely and utterly redundant before it's even released.

It also conflicts with me because I truly believe that (at least up until I stopped paying attention, which was about the time that Essentials came out) 4e has made gigantic leaps in improvement since it's introduction due to constant and ever evolving errata. Hate errata all you want, but I feel it serves to improve on the game and should be used because of that.

So, here I am about to join a new group and already I have strong feelings about how they should be playing. This doesn't bode well for me.

Now, usually what I'd do in this situation would be to take over DM'ing of their group and then subsequently alienate each of them, one by one, until the group entirely dissolves or I just get tired of their incompetence and lack of insight into my brilliance.

I'd like to avoid that this time around.

So essentially I'm asking how I can have my cake and eat it too. How can I influence the group to use all the current rules and errata and accept the CB as the be-all-and-end-all of the system without annoying and pissing them all off?

 

[the Jester]

You probably can't, and you sound like you know that. You're stepping into a group with an existing social contract; you are signing up for that social contract. Or bring it up up front right away, and if it's a deal breaker for you to have to buy a book, then bow out gracefully instead of possibly damaging their game.

 

[grizzo]

Keep those feelings to your self . Otherwise you might be looking for new group real soon.

 

[billd91]

Be prepared to sign on to the group's social contract whenever you are invited to a new group. I assume they invited you to play, not try to change the way they prefer to do things.

That said, there's nothing wrong with bringing up your concerns before you actually start playing. It's possible they consider subscribing to the DDI counts as owning a copy of the relevant rules.

 

[pawsplay]

Your best chance of changing someone is to allow yourself to be changed.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

How do they expect you to make a character, by their agreement, when you have no books? You have told them you rely on the CB exclusively, yes?

Aside from that question, I have but one suggestion: offer to DM for them, and show them by example how to do it right. That's the only tactic that's ever been [partly] successful for me. Any other tactic ends with either glazed eyes or a swift kick in the pants.

 

[pawsplay]

Aside from that question, I have but one suggestion: offer to DM for them, and show them by example how to do it right. That's the only tactic that's ever been [partly] successful for me. Any other tactic ends with either glazed eyes or a swift kick in the pants.

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Now, usually what I'd do in this situation would be to take over DM'ing of their group and then subsequently alienate each of them, one by one, until the group entirely dissolves or I just get tired of their incompetence and lack of insight into my brilliance.

I'm not sure how useful that suggestion is. I think a more productive approach is to look at that word "should." What does it mean?

Do they have to? I'm going to say, "No."
Will they? Probably not.

Does it mean anything distinct from, "I want them to?" What is the upside for them? Do they want to change? If they do, will they be happier?

 

[Crothian]

Look for a different group.

 

[Dausuul]

You probably can't, and you sound like you know that. You're stepping into a group with an existing social contract; you are signing up for that social contract. Or bring it up up front right away, and if it's a deal breaker for you to have to buy a book, then bow out gracefully instead of possibly damaging their game.

Stop posting stuff until I have a chance to spread some XP around, dangit!

But yeah, the Jester nails it here. You can make a case for doing it your way, but if they don't agree, they don't agree and there's no reason they should. (If you become DM, you can of course allow what you like, and maybe win them over... but then again, maybe not.)

What I suggest is this: Explain that you have a DDI sub and don't want to waste money on hard copy books you'll never use. Ask what books everyone else at the table owns, and suggest you should be allowed to use any material from those books, since you effectively "own" all of them. Then just check the sources on your feats and powers before taking them.

If they want to put further restrictions on what you can use, you'll have to decide whether that seems reasonable. If they insist that you have to have hard copy even though you have a perfectly serviceable e-version, ask if they'll pay for it.

Going into a gaming group expecting the gaming group to change is at least as futile as going into a relationship with similar expectations.

 

[Oryan77]

I'm not sure why you feel entitled to having your cake and eating it too. You're the new guy.

You're already wanting to tell them how to play and you haven't even played yet. If you can't deal with it, then do these guys a favor and don't show up to their game. Don't be a problem player.

They've already let you know how they do things. If they wanted to do it your way, they'd be doing it. Why would you want to mess with this groups mojo?

In the end, I secretly hope you do play with them. They might come here to complain about you and that'll give me some good reading.