How to influence a group's rules usage without alienating them?

[Kzach]

EDIT: I thought I was editing the original post above.

 

[S'mon]

Then where would I get all this material to give you, the poster, the drama you crave?

I think you have me confused with Oryan. Personally I'm fine if I never see a post by you again.

 

[DragonLancer]

I think you should just bite the bullet and buy the PHB. It's only reasonable considering that are joining a group that players 4E. If you eventually leave or the game ends/group splits, you can still sell it on EBay or maybe dob it into your FLGS.

 

[Kzach]

I think you have me confused with Oryan.

Pretty sure I don't.

Personally I'm fine if I never see a post by you again.

And yet, you keep coming back and responding to what I post.

I think you should just bite the bullet and buy the PHB. It's only reasonable considering that are joining a group that players 4E. If you eventually leave or the game ends/group splits, you can still sell it on EBay or maybe dob it into your FLGS.

Actually I pre-ordered the slip-cover set of the PHB, DMG & MM before 4e was officially released. After the initial surge of use, they've sat on my shelf doing nothing. I stopped bothering with bringing them to games because I never used them. I bought another few books and the same thing happened with them. After a few hundred dollars, I came to the conclusion that I was wasting paper and money and vowed not to keep making such a mistake.

 

[DragonLancer]

Actually I pre-ordered the slip-cover set of the PHB, DMG & MM before 4e was officially released. After the initial surge of use, they've sat on my shelf doing nothing. I stopped bothering with bringing them to games because I never used them. I bought another few books and the same thing happened with them. After a few hundred dollars, I came to the conclusion that I was wasting paper and money and vowed not to keep making such a mistake.

So you do own a 4E PHB? If so, then I don't see the problem. Just dust it off and take it to the game.

 

[Kobold Boots]

So, if all goes well, which with me it usually doesn't, but if it does then I'll be joining a new group sometime in the next couple of weeks. Unfortunately, they use a very limited set of rules and have a basic agreement that you can only use it if you own it.

How very late system life of them. To be honest, I tend to use the same basic rule due to system bloat and time considerations due to the usual symptom of players who don't own the material, having not read the material fully and generally not knowing how to play their characters, thus slowing combat down considerably. YMMV though.

This conflicts with me on several levels.

For one thing, I utterly refuse to buy hard copies of 4e materials. I will subscribe to DDI and that will be my sole source of 4e material. Buying a hard copy is, to me, an incredible waste of money. I would literally prefer to burn the money than spend it on a 4e book. This isn't because I hate 4e, it's because I refuse to spend money on something that is completely and utterly redundant before it's even released.

It also conflicts with me because I truly believe that (at least up until I stopped paying attention, which was about the time that Essentials came out) 4e has made gigantic leaps in improvement since it's introduction due to constant and ever evolving errata. Hate errata all you want, but I feel it serves to improve on the game and should be used because of that.

So, here I am about to join a new group and already I have strong feelings about how they should be playing. This doesn't bode well for me.

Is this thread about your new group or you? As it stands you're presenting yourself as a group of one. I'd seriously re-evaluate your playing intentions or consider starting your own group if I were you.. but this would also run against your book buying policy. At some point you can't play the game as intended and refuse to buy the rules in the context they're presented best.

Now, usually what I'd do in this situation would be to take over DM'ing of their group and then subsequently alienate each of them, one by one, until the group entirely dissolves or I just get tired of their incompetence and lack of insight into my brilliance.

I'd like to avoid that this time around.

This approach is likely the source of your luck with gaming groups mentioned in your first sentence. People don't game to be brilliant and it is a social event worthy of developing significant social skill and tolerance of compromise.

So essentially I'm asking how I can have my cake and eat it too. How can I influence the group to use all the current rules and errata and accept the CB as the be-all-and-end-all of the system without annoying and pissing them all off?

Fastest answer: Don't play with them, thank them for the offer and explain why, then stay in touch with them as potential friends.


Slow answer: Compromise, shut up and play nice, then a few months to a year down the road, offer to DM a one shot.

Patience and compromise get you what you want. Not ego.

 

[Umbran]

So, here I am about to join a new group and already I have strong feelings about how they should be playing. This doesn't bode well for me.

Joining a gaming group is like getting into a long-term romantic relationship - if you cannot accept them the way they are now, if you are going into it with a plan to change them, then yes, you have a problem.

So essentially I'm asking how I can have my cake and eat it too.

There are two basic possibilities:

1)Open yourself up to different kinds of cake.

2) Be open with them about what you want. Sly manipulations will eventually out, and you'll be back to alienation. If they won't agree to what you want, or at least compromise to a point you feel happy with, make a decision: Do you really need to have it your way to have a good time? If not, then play by their rules. If you do, then go find or create another group.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Bribe them with booze and hookers.

 

[amerigoV]

Bribe them with booze and hookers.

Darn, I cannot give you any more XP.

My view: "Ask forgiveness, not permission." The GM is providing entertainment. As such, you are the consumer. And the Customer is always right.

 

[Oryan77]

My view: "Ask forgiveness, not permission." The GM is providing entertainment. As such, you are the consumer. And the Customer is always right.

In order for a customer to "always be right", he needs to be paying me for that privilege. Otherwise, if I'm giving out free handouts, he can take it or leave it.