promoting a healthier geek and nerd

I have tried stevia and for some reason it tastes bitter to me.

Try agave nectar. It is sweet (a bit sweeter than honey, actually), mixes into things very well, has a glycemic index comparable to fructose (and thus lower than ordinary sugar /sucrose and honey), and is also more easily processed by the body.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Try agave nectar. It is sweet (a bit sweeter than honey, actually), mixes into things very well, has a glycemic index comparable to fructose (and thus lower than ordinary sugar /sucrose and honey), and is also more easily processed by the body.

I am sorry, nothing personal to Rhun... But, I am going to have to disagree...

Agave nectar has a wonderful taste and, admittedly, I have a bottle of Organic Blue Agave that I use (very) rarely.

But don't let the manufacturers fool you. It is basically high fructose agave syrup. The Native Americans used to have an agave based sweetener called miel de agave and they made it by boiling the agave sap... for hours. It was their Maple Syrup.

This is NOT what modern agave nectar is. It comes from a totally different part of the plant, the big bulbous root, and it was developed sometime in the late 20th century, 80's or 90's.

The agave root is a starch, like corn, and has something called inulin (a fructose chain of molecules) and it is not sweet, but makes up almost half of the carbs in the syrup. The process that converts corn into HFCS? It's the same process that converts agave and inulin into "nectar". Such a nice, healthy sounding word, isn't it?

Here's a quote from one of the MANY sites that debunk the agave nectar myth:

"It's almost all fructose, highly processed sugar with great marketing," Dr. Ingrid Kohlstadt, a fellow of the American College of Nutrition and an associate faculty member at Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, told the Chicago Tribune. "Fructose interferes with healthy metabolism when (consumed) at higher doses," she said. "Many people have fructose intolerance like lactose intolerance. They get acne or worse diabetes symptoms even though their blood [sugar] is okay."

Turpentine has a low-glycemic index; it is not good for you though. It's a marketing ploy that ignores the loads of science out there.

It's fine to get fructose from whole fruit. It is also loaded with vitamins and antioxidants (among other healthy things), but when you process it like this, it wreaks havoc on your metabolic system.

Don't believe the hype. Obviously a little isn't going to hurt you, but I would never make it my primary sweetener.

Read the science.
 


The agave stuff weren't all my words. I cobbled together some of the main arguments and paraphrased. There's a ton of science out there clearing the air about the supposed benefits of agave nectar.
 

I started a hardcore fitness regimen a little over a year ago, and my results have been really good. For my diet, I now really just count calories and vaguely mind the protein/carb/fat ratios. I don't have to give any thought to anything with more than two syllables. Mind the calories, and really, everything tends to fall into place properly.

I eat normal food. I have no special drinks or ingredients. Heck, I ate an egg mcmuffin for breakfast this morning -- 300 calories and an acceptable protein/carb/fat ratio.

I've come to be amazed at how easy it really is to eat satisfactorily.

Bullgrit
 

Here are more easy ones to remember....

1. 4 words. "Eat Less, Move more."

If you are overweight and need to lose? It is simple, and can work. Though, truth be told, eat less doesn't mean "eat only one box of cookies instead of two". You have to be honest about what you are eating, so it works better if you follow the next rule too.

2. Try to eat mostly things that are made up of one ingredient.

Fruit, fish, chicken, beef, vegetables, etc. are all fine for you and will help you detoxify your body. Just like above, though, you can't be a glutton about it. Now, some foods have more than one "ingredient", but if you read the back and it has stuff in it that doesn't sound like something you could have eaten 100-150 years ago? You might want to pass.

3. Eat from the outer-ring at the grocery store.

Notice how the stuff around the outside tend to follow #2's philosophy? Fruit, veggies, dairy, meats, etc? A lot of the stuff in the middle is made up of boxed, bagged, or processed stuff. If there's a ton of chemicals or unpronounceable ingredients? erm.. you should put it back on the shelf.

EDIT: I hope I was clear enough so that you understand that a salad of baby greens, bell peppers, cucumbers, and other veggies, with a splash of extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar can constitute a "one ingredient" salad. Each item has only one ingredient... But I am sure you know what I meant. You're not supposed to be looking for loopholes. :)
 
Last edited:

Read the science.

Yes, let us...

"Studies that have compared high-fructose corn syrup (an ingredient in nearly all soft drinks sold in the US) to sucrose (common table sugar) find that most measured physiological effects are equivalent. For instance, Melanson et al. (2006), studied the effects of HFCS and sucrose sweetened drinks on blood glucose, insulin, leptin, and ghrelin levels. They found no significant differences in any of these parameters.[50] This is not surprising, since sucrose is a disaccharide that digests to 50% fructose and 50% glucose, whereas the high-fructose corn syrup most commonly used on soft drinks is 55% fructose and 45% glucose. The difference between the two lies in the fact that HFCS contains little sucrose, the fructose and glucose being independent moieties."

....

"Eating fructose *instead of glucose* results in lower circulating insulin and leptin levels, and higher ghrelin levels after the meal. Since leptin and insulin decrease appetite and ghrelin increases appetite, some researchers suspect that eating large amounts of fructose increases the likelihood of weight gain."

Basically, the *real* major problem with fructose is that eating it leaves you hungrier, so that you will tend to overeat, and thus get fat. However, HFCS is only 5% more fructose than standard table sugar, and so does not show much of this effect - replacing HFCS with standard cane sugar isn't a major difference, as it isn't really changing the amount of fructose in your diet much.

And, we can also note that fructose is sweeter to the tongue than standard table sugar, so if you are paying attention you can use less of it to get the same desired sweetness. In addition, fructose does not trigger production of insulin like glucose does, and so is of notable use for diabetics.

Too much of *anything* in your diet is bad. But HFCS isn't a demon waiting to get you if you use it in moderation. Any sugar is a demon waiting for you if you ingest to excess.


[50] Melanson, K.; et al. (2006). "Eating Rate and Satiation.". Obesity Society (NAASO) 2006 Annual Meeting, October 20–24,Hynes Convention Center, Boston, Massachusetts.
 

Umbran --

I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that using high fructose corn (or agave) syrup as your your primary source of sweetener is OK? Because it certainly is NOT. And that was the point of my post.

Fructose from fruit? That's fine. Honey, or other pure sources of sweetener, these are OK too, in moderation. Artificial sweeteners? Bad idea.

If you simply meant to say that HFCS isn't a death machine, well of course I agree. I even said that a little of it is OK, just don't make it your primary source of sweets.

If you recall in a previous post in this thread, I quoted a fitness and nutrition expert, who didn't say HRCS was awful, but that it was not the same as frucotse straight from fruit. He also said:

The problem with HFCS is that it is not processed by our bodies in the same way as other sugars and tends to be more lipogenic (promotes fat storage). Also, your body doesn’t readily recognize the calories ingested from HFCS, so it does nothing to satisfy your appetite. The bottom line is, if you want to be lean and ripped, stay away from the empty calories of HFCS.​

Also, when I said "read the science" it was in the context of debunking the advertising around agave nectar.

My quote, taken out of context, isn't very helpful to the readers.

And your quote isn't a study. It was a speech at an annual meeting about a series of studies done in the early 90s... in the world of food science that 15-20 years is a lifetime (Correction below**). Here's a Princeton study from 2010.

And here's a nice tidbit from the end:

"Our findings lend support to the theory that the excessive consumption of high-fructose corn syrup found in many beverages may be an important factor in the obesity epidemic," Avena said.

The new research complements previous work led by Hoebel and Avena demonstrating that sucrose can be addictive, having effects on the brain similar to some drugs of abuse.

In the future, the team intends to explore how the animals respond to the consumption of high-fructose corn syrup in conjunction with a high-fat diet -- the equivalent of a typical fast-food meal containing a hamburger, fries and soda -- and whether excessive high-fructose corn syrup consumption contributes to the diseases associated with obesity. Another step will be to study how fructose affects brain function in the control of appetite.​


Also, my wife is at Type I diabetic. Sometimes she needs sugar if she is getting hypoglycemic. In emergency situation, the fastest, best way is straight glucose (sold as Glucose Tablets with 4g of fast-acting carbs).

So, there is a place for glucose too.

But when something is processed like HFCS is, your body doesn't know what to do with it, it's empty calories, and it can generate feelings of hunger afterwards and cause more weight gain.

HFCS is produced by isomerizing most of the glucose in corn syrup to fructose and then mixing this syrup with varying amounts of corn-based glucose syrup. HFCS-55, consisting of 55% fructose and 42% glucose, is used primarily in sweetened beverages, whereas HFCS-42 (42% fructose; 53% glucose) is used primarily to sweeten other products (e.g., baked foods and confectionaries).

So HFCS is almost half glucose anyway...

To Quote Dr. Joseph Mercola:
By USDA estimates, about one-quarter of the calories consumed by the average American is in the form of added sugars, and most of that is HFCS. The average Westerner consumes a staggering 142 pounds a year of sugar! And the very products most people rely on to lose weight -- the low-fat diet foods -- are often the ones highest in fructose.

Making matters worse, all of the fiber has been removed from these processed foods, so there is essentially no nutritive value at all.

Bottom line.... It isn't that glucose or fructose itself is bad -- it is the MASSIVE DOSES we're exposed to that make it dangerous.




** EDIT: I am sorry, the studies were done in early-mid 2000's. But it notable that her own study done in 2007 (after that meeting) says:

However, when HFCS is compared with sucrose, the more commonly consumed sweetener, such differences are not apparent, and appetite and energy intake do not differ in the short-term. Longer-term studies on connections between HFCS, potential mechanisms, and body weight have not been conducted. The main objective of this review was to examine collective data on associations between consumption of HFCS and energy balance, with particular focus on energy intake and its regulation.

(Emphasis mine) I think the long-term effects are much more important, and I look forward to reading these studies.
 
Last edited:

Speaking as one who is frequently in the offices of dietitians *ahem*:

It isn't that HFCS is worse than other sugars, it's that the processed food industries have gotten ahold of it- it's cheaper to produce in mass quantities than other sugars- and have added it as a flavor enhancer to foods that once contained little or no sugar at all.

IOW, we're simply ingesting it and it's attendant calories at ass-rounding rates.
 

The agave root is a starch, like corn, and has something called inulin (a fructose chain of molecules) and it is not sweet, but makes up almost half of the carbs in the syrup. The process that converts corn into HFCS? It's the same process that converts agave and inulin into "nectar". Such a nice, healthy sounding word, isn't it?

You know, there is also a lot of research going on currently showing that inulin is actually good for you.
 

Remove ads

Top