Playing 2e, 3e, and 4e at the same time: Observations

[jlac]

I played in a 2 hour 2e game at Origins this year. It was the top portion of Ye Olde Moathouse. While what the OP says is true about 2e (and I did have fun), it did remind me why I will not play it anymore - just a maddening jumble of "roll high for this, roll low for that". I ran the thief and the wizard, and in that two hours I rolled the following to see if I could do anything:

• Roll high on a d20 to hit
• Roll low on a d20 to see if I could swim across the moat
• Roll high on a d6 to surprise someone
• Roll low on a d6 to see if I found a secret door
• Roll low on d% to listen /detect traps/climb
• Roll low on a d10 for initiative
• No roll - cast a spell

I felt like I was playing Calvinball. Fun, but the rules were a mess.
...

I'm not sure why you included "cast a spell" on a list of rolls you had to make, other than to pad the list. However, rolling for surprise in 2E is d10, roll low. So, other than the attack roll, all the rolls in your list are roll low. Hardly seems like a "maddening jumble" to me.

 

[amerigoV]

I'm not sure why you included "cast a spell" on a list of rolls you had to make, other than to pad the list. However, rolling for surprise in 2E is d10, roll low. So, other than the attack roll, all the rolls in your list are roll low. Hardly seems like a "maddening jumble" to me.

On surprise, I was going by what the DM said (been waaay to long for me to remember the mechanic myself). I listed casting a spell for completeness in what to do to complete a notable action (say in comparison to 4e where the caster rolls to "attack" a spell defense). Although I do not play 4e, I do like that mechanic for magic - that way the player running the fighter can yell at the player running the spellcaster when they hit a string of low rolls.

Also, the "maddening jumble" is using different mechanics for similar things - search for a trap is a d%, search for secret door is d6, and swim across the moat is a d20 (rolled low). In those three cases I am doing something out of combat that is subject to risk of failure, but each has a different mechanical approach to determine success.

OTOH - the variety of dice and inconsistency of when to use them is probably why 1e and 2e have an "arcane" feel to them. In 1e and 2e, the class you pick determines a lot of the mechanics you use, so it gives some variety there.

 

[Lanefan]

Pretty much any edition that has fireball. Sure, you need to indicate where you'll cast it, that generally adds one extra word. "I cast fireball - here." and point to a location if you're using a map or grid, or otherwise indicate the target area. It really depends on the room dimensions. A large room with enemies 50 feet away? The dm thinks I'm fireballing my feet?

I steadfastly maintain it's a failure of the RAW in every edition so far not to force a relatively-easy-to-make aiming roll for spells like this.

On a fumble, your feet might be the only part of you that's safe.

Lanefan

 

[Gentlegamer]

*looks at crit chart from 1986*

You must be looking at Arms Law.

Pre 3e, the default rules of AD&D/D&D did not include critical hits or misses.*

*Aside from specific monsters or magic items that had an extra effect on a high attack roll.

 

[jlac]

You must be looking at Arms Law.

Pre 3e, the default rules of AD&D/D&D did not include critical hits or misses.*

*Aside from specific monsters or magic items that had an extra effect on a high attack roll.

The AD&D 2E book Player's Option: Combat & Tactics was released in 1995, and it had critical hit tables. So, maybe he meant 1996?

 

[jlac]

I steadfastly maintain it's a failure of the RAW in every edition so far not to force a relatively-easy-to-make aiming roll for spells like this.

On a fumble, your feet might be the only part of you that's safe.

Lanefan

You kind of have a point, at least with respect to AD&D 2E's fireball. Here is how you aim the thing, straight from the text:

"The wizard points his finger and speaks the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A streak flashes from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball (an early impact results in an early detonation)."
​

I'd think at least an intelligence check is in order. Sure, they'll make it most of the time, but not always... And I've got to remember that "material body or solid barrier" part, too.

 

[Gentlegamer]

The AD&D 2E book Player's Option: Combat & Tactics was released in 1995, and it had critical hit tables. So, maybe he meant 1996?

Maybe, but Combat & Tactics was an optional supplement, not default rules.

 

[jlac]

Maybe, but Combat & Tactics was an optional supplement, not default rules.

Yeah. The word "Option" in the title of the book sort of explains that already.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Speaking of optional material, there were critical miss tables in The Dragon.

 

[ashockney]

To add to Lanefan's reply, there are optional rules for critical hits in AD&D 2E's Dungeon Master Guide, Combat & Tactics and Spells & Magic.

I believe there were crit tables dating back to Best of Dragon Vol 2 or 3.