Pathfinder 1E [Pathfinder] Looking for a replacement for theme feats

Shisumo

First Post
For some reason - and I am having real trouble figuring out what that reason is, let alone articulating it - the theme feats don't appeal to me in the slightest. Maybe it's because, while I appreciate what they do, I don't want the PCs to be locked into those roles, and not taking a theme feat is a massive power reduction? I'm not sure. Regardless, I find myself preferring to stick with a more traditional trait setup, and I was wondering if anyone wanted to help me put some campaign traits together?

Since I'm looking at going with traits rather than feats anyway, I'm also playing with the concept of some regional traits for the various nations, so any input on that score would be welcome as well.
 

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I can understand that the theme feats won't appeal to some players/GMs out there as they're something new. I'll warn you that these feats are called on a lot in the campaign, and there are points where PCs with specific theme feats (or the 4e equivalent) gain bonuses or additional information at certain points in the campaign.

Now if you want to work around the theme feats, there are some options...

1) Give the players an option to select an additional feat at first level. Ensure these feats work into their background in order to prevent any sort of power-gaming. Keep in mind that the theme feats are typically more powerful than a standard feat.

2) Go the route of standard traits. Campaign traits can be easily pieced together based on other existing traits (see Paizo's Inner Sea Guide and other products) with minor modifications.

If you do decide to go with standard campaign traits, I'm wondering if you'd be more interested in the typical "You're here because", or just generalized background story? In the later option, you could create them for each of the theme feats, just with drastically reduced powers.
 


If I may briefly argue in favor of you giving them a try, the basic idea for the theme feats was to give players a quick and easy list of hooks of how they can tie their characters into the setting.

Sure, there are some awesome players who actually read and absorb the details of the Player's Guide, but for the folks who just skim the book looking for stuff their characters can take, the feats are a way to say, "Here's some of the main ways this setting is distinctive from others."

I don't personally see them as something that locks you into a particular character concept, because they're fairly modular. They don't stop you from playing your character how you want; you can be a cleric gunslinger, or a bard martial scientist, or a druid technologist.

If you don't think your players would like them, then sure, it's definitely fine for them to use the normal traits system. But if it's just that you don't like them yourself, I'd say let your players take a look, and see what they think. My hope is that the fact that these feats let them do stuff 1st level characters normally can't do will help the players get excited about the setting.


As for suggesting different traits for different regions, I'll have to take another look at all the current trait options, to see what looks like a good fit.
 

My thought was to make Campaign Trait versions of the theme feats; I'm reasonably comfortable with "You all work for the RHC" as enough of a tie-together to get the campaign itself moving. I think I'd be more comfortable with that because it would allow me to keep the flavor for the players who want them while allowing uninterested players the option of avoiding those particular character concepts.

Some ideas I was playing with so far:
Docker's Jank
Once per day, when taking the Aid Another action, you may increase the bonus you give to +4.

Icy End of the Earth
You gain the ability to cast stabilize and ray of frost, both as spell-like abilities once per day. The caster level for these abilities is equal to your highest caster level attained, or CL 1st if you have no caster level.

The Man With Two Guns is God
You gain a +1 trait bonus to initiative checks, and may draw a light or one-handed firearm as a free action. If you have two such weapons, you may draw them both with the same free action.
 

[MENTION=85314]Shisumo[/MENTION] I very much get the desire to use campaign traits for the AP. Originally I had wanted to put them in, but Ryan convinced me of the awesome-ness of giving the PCs a bit more to start with.

That being said, I love your thoughts for campaign traits and decided to follow-up with some of my own. Hopefully these might help you, or inspire others who want to take a similar approach. I added yours in as well, changing the Docker to gain the prestige bonus.

Maybe some GMs will prefer these?



Docker
Once per day, when taking the Aid Another action, you increase the bonus you give to +4.
If you choose this trait, the party’s Prestige with Flint starts at 2 instead of 1

Eschatologist
You gain the ability to cast stabilize and ray of frost, both as spell-like abilities once per day. The caster level for these abilities is equal to your highest caster level attained, or CL 1st if you have no caster level.

Gunsmith
You gain a +1 trait bonus to initiative checks, and may draw a light or one-handed firearm as a free action. If you have two such weapons, you may draw them both with the same free action.

Martial Scientist
Whenever you miss with an attack roll, you gain a +2 trait bonus to hit on attack rolls made in the following round, as long as they are with an improvised weapon.

Skyseer
Once per day you may touch an ally and give them insight into future actions. The touched ally chooses one of the following; Attack Roll, Saving Throw, Skill Check or Concentration Check, and then rolls a d20. The next time the ally would roll for the selected action, they may use the previously rolled result or opt to make a new roll. Other abilities that allow re-rolls may not be used in conjunction with this ability. If the action would have multiple rolls (such as iterative attacks), only the first roll is replaced.

Spirit Medium
Once per day you may use Speak with Dead as a spell-like ability. When using the spell in this manner, you must use it in the area where your target died and it must be used within a day of the creature’s death. You may only ask one question of the deceased and it receives a +2 bonus to saves against this effect. You do not require a complete body as the ability speaks with the spirit and needs no corporeal connection.

Technologist
You gain a contraption. When inactive it weights 5lbs and can fit in a pouch or pocket, but once per day as a standard action, you may activate the contraption and place it in an unoccupied adjacent space, at which point it becomes a Small creature. Once activated, the contraption acts as an Unseen Servant for up to one hour, after which it must recharge. Recharging requires 8 hours of inactivity for the contraption.

Vekeshi Mystic
When an ally within 20ft is damaged by an enemy attack, you gain a +1 trait bonus to damage on attacks against that enemy. This lasts for one round.
If you choose this trait, the party’s Prestige with the Unseen Court starts at 2 instead of 1

Yerasol Veteran
You gain a +2 trait bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity when you move to a damaged or prone ally. You must end your movement adjacent to the ally if you choose to gain this bonus. You still receive this bonus if an enemy attack of opportunity somehow prevents you from moving.
If you choose this trait, the party’s Prestige with Risur starts at 2 instead of 1
 

[MENTION=85314]Shisumo[/MENTION] Converting Themes to Campaign Traits was the first thing that went through my mind too when I read the Player's Guide, so I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thought that way. After reading a bit more, though, I've got to thinking they're a pretty cool way to set off this Adventure Path from those set in Golarion. I'll probably be sticking with Themes for this time around, but I'm eager to know how these Campaign Traits work if you do use them.

[MENTION=53273]Rugult[/MENTION] I love the suggestions you've contributed for changing Themes into Campaign Traits, do you think there will be a balance issue, though, pairing these with some from the Advanced Player's Guide?
 

@Rugult I love the suggestions you've contributed for changing Themes into Campaign Traits, do you think there will be a balance issue, though, pairing these with some from the Advanced Player's Guide?

Naw, nothing too game breaking here, most of these are fairly in line with other traits.

The only one that might be 'high' would be the Skyseer as Speak with Dead is a higher level spell. That's why I gave the target a bonus to saves and restricted it to one question.

As with most typical traits, these will really wear out in use once the PCs hit mid-high levels.
 

I had the same thought about Skyseer as well, but clearly the modules will be balanced with that ability in mind (since the theme feat will be the default) so I don't think I would sweat it too much. I just wouldn't take it as a guideline for future trait design, is all.

That said, many past campaign traits have edged to the higher end of trait power (Sword Scion, I'm looking at you), so I'm a bit more willing to be forgiving anyway.
 

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