Template Help: Feral Creature template

[Belzbet]

In Savage Species they offer a new template called "feral". The template is inherited (meanig a creature 'gets' it at birth so at 1 HD or whatever) so I assume that the abilities increase if your HD increases )or else the sample feral minotaur would not have pounce (since it inherited this template when it was 1HD as birth).

My problem is that it has an LA of +1. this is surely to low for fast healing 5, pounce, rake, rend, improved grab, ability bonuses, +6 to Natural armor, +10 to spd... and more.. even if those abilities are gained slowly... Did they simply make a mistake??? Any thoughts??

 

[Ahnehnois]

Yes, they made a mistake. The Feral template is generally regarded as severely overpowered and an example of poor design. If you wanted to use it as written, you should probably increase the LA significantly.

 

[Greenfield]

It kind of suckers you in. The advantages given seem almost reasonable, if you look at the 1 HD version of it.

But as you add dice, it adds CR without adding LA.

So if someone wants to use it on a character, "No" is your best answer.

Option 2 would be to modify it so that LA goes up with CR. That means that some Feral characters will have to earn EXP for two levels to advance one at certain points in their career.

(Personally, I'd go with option 1, but it's up to the DM).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It should be +2 at least. Personally, that's where I peg it, and haven't really had any balance issues with it there.

Another one to look at with similar problems is Winged. And Multi-headed can pile up a bunch of bennies for not too much of a price, either.

 

[Visigani]

I'm a Feral Saint Anthropomorphic Bat Cleric.

Suck it suckers.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The Feral Template is very broken.

No other template I'm aware of stacks the way it does. Greenfield's suggestion about scaling LA with levels is a balanced, if not complicated one.

Another option may be to movel it off of the Book of Exalted Deeds "Vow of Poverty" feat. This feat has you give up the ability to ever get masterwork or magical armor, weapons, or gear of any sort, leaving you with simple clothes, a bag, 1 day's worth of food and simple, ordinary weapons. You get instead a bunch of really sweet abilities, AC bonuses, combat bonuses, access to feats, and so on.

Using this as a model, there may be a way to gain the Feral Template, but give something else up in exchange. I'm not sure what would be balancing, but I'm sure the brilliant minds here would have some suggestions!

 

[Sekhmet]

Having an LA +1 doesn't really change it's intended use, as an enemy.
I don't see any reason to allow a player to use a Feral creature, as even the name suggests they've lost their mind.
That said, you need to evaluate which parts of the SS you want to incorporate into your game, as most here would agree it is at least as broken as the original Psionics Handbook.

 

[Belzbet]

Having an LA +1 doesn't really change it's intended use, as an enemy.
I don't see any reason to allow a player to use a Feral creature, as even the name suggests they've lost their mind.
That said, you need to evaluate which parts of the SS you want to incorporate into your game, as most here would agree it is at least as broken as the original Psionics Handbook.

Can you explain alittle more? I do intend on using SS, what would you suggest is broken or at least not recommended? Many of my PC's already use the rules out of SS, one is actually an astral deva... I would like to know what to stay away from...

 

[Ahnehnois]

most here would agree it is at least as broken as the original Psionics Handbook.

More so. The 3.0 PsiHB was not bad at all, more misunderstood.

I would like to know what to stay away from...

Watch out for anthropomorphic animals. There are some ridiculous stat mods to be had for little or no LA, often with flight and natural armor.

Winged and multiheaded templates as mentioned above are very abusable.

There are some shenanigans to be had with the Survivor prestige class (a 1st level commoner qualifies for it).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There are some ridiculous stat mods to be had for little or no LA, often with flight and natural armor.

Well, remember, for PCs, you have to calculate the ECL, not just use the LA. So a Lvl 1 Paladin Anthro with LA+2- aaaaaand a few HD- is going to be equivalent to something more than just 3rd level. And but for the Small ones, most of the Anthros have some HD.