D&D 4E Some questions about 4e

[Reffy]

I have some questions I couldn't find in the players handbooks or the dungeon master guides. Maybe you could help me out.

1#
I'm playing as DM with a monk in the group. The monk can, when he hits with certain attacks, give 5 vulnerable cold to an enemy.

If the enemy has 15 resist cold, and he gets 5 vulnerable cold. How does that work?

2#
About implements. Again, I use the monk as an example.

Monks normally attack with their fists. However, you can choose implements for them, like daggers.

If a monk uses daggers, are they stabbing/cutting instead of punching?

I know that the flavor text doesn't adjust to the weapons/implements you have.
The character builder does say that the monk is using his daggers for damage.

3#
Some classes can use daggers as implements. Some of those daggers are jagged. Those daggers have a curved shape. When you stab someone with a jagged dagger, the curved shape will cause additional damage.
This is translated in 4e as 'On a critical hit, target gains 10 ongoing damage. Save ends.'

If a sorcerer uses a jagged dagger, and he critical hits with an acid orb attack. Does the 10 ongoing damage still applies?

Since he didn't stab, I guess the jagged critical effect didn't work.
Or is this too much realism interpreted in d&d?

4#
Can a fighter mark an enemy he can't see? (Fighter is blinded or enemy is invisible.)

What if the fighter can't see the enemy, but he knows it's there? (A PC can see the enemy, and he told the fighter where it is.)

What about hunter's quarry, avengers oath etc?


That is all I could think of right now. If anyone can help me with this, it will be appreciated.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I can only answer a few questions.

I have some questions I couldn't find in the players handbooks or the dungeon master guides. Maybe you could help me out.

1#
I'm playing as DM with a monk in the group. The monk can, when he hits with certain attacks, give 5 vulnerable cold to an enemy.

If the enemy has 15 resist cold, and he gets 5 vulnerable cold. How does that work?

Apply both. So resist 10 cold.

2#
About implements. Again, I use the monk as an example.

Monks normally attack with their fists. However, you can choose implements for them, like daggers.

If a monk uses daggers, are they stabbing/cutting instead of punching?

I know that the flavor text doesn't adjust to the weapons/implements you have.
The character builder does say that the monk is using his daggers for damage.

A dagger is not an implement. A ki focus is an implement, I think.

The Character Builder should "know" that monks can make unarmed attacks. I suspect it's riddled with errors though, and I personally don't like it. But now I'm going off-topic.

3#
Some classes can use daggers as implements. Some of those daggers are jagged. Those daggers have a curved shape. When you stab someone with a jagged dagger, the curved shape will cause additional damage.
This is translated in 4e as 'On a critical hit, target gains 10 ongoing damage. Save ends.'

If a sorcerer uses a jagged dagger, and he critical hits with an acid orb attack. Does the 10 ongoing damage still applies?

No, because he's not hitting with the dagger.

4#
Can a fighter mark an enemy he can't see? (Fighter is blinded or enemy is invisible.)

Blindness/invisibility is nowhere near as nasty as it was in 3.x. You can still target opponents you can't see. Stealth can prevent targeting. Read the newest Stealth rules, several times, as they're horribly complicated.

What if the fighter can't see the enemy, but he knows it's there? (A PC can see the enemy, and he told the fighter where it is.)

Invisibility/blindness does not prevent targeting. If the opponent is using Stealth, then an ally can point out their location if they made their Perception.

What about hunter's quarry, avengers oath etc?

Blindness/invisibility does not prevent targeting. Stealth does though.

Blindness/invisibility gives the target total concealment (-5 to hit) and I believe it prevents opportunity attacks, but check up the rules to be safe. As there's no attack roll for Hunter's Quarry, Warlock Oath, etc, there's no penalty.

And no, it's not realistic. Think of blindness as having really blurry vision, or invisibility as making someone hard to see rather than actually invisible. You can still distinguish between allies and enemies, fortunately. Because the enemy now has total concealment, they can initiate and maintain Stealth.

See here for more rules: Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible

 

[malraux]

I have some questions I couldn't find in the players handbooks or the dungeon master guides. Maybe you could help me out.

1#
I'm playing as DM with a monk in the group. The monk can, when he hits with certain attacks, give 5 vulnerable cold to an enemy.

If the enemy has 15 resist cold, and he gets 5 vulnerable cold. How does that work?

The enemy has resist 15 cold and 5 vulnerable cold.

In practice, here's what that means: a creature can decide whatever order it wants for the purposes of applying resists and vulnerabilities (not sure of citation). So in practice, if it takes 15 cold damage, it'll choose to resist it first, at which point it takes 0 cold damage. But if it takes 16 cold damage, it'll end up taking 6 cold damage (16-15+5).

2#
About implements. Again, I use the monk as an example.

Monks normally attack with their fists. However, you can choose implements for them, like daggers.

If a monk uses daggers, are they stabbing/cutting instead of punching?

I know that the flavor text doesn't adjust to the weapons/implements you have.
The character builder does say that the monk is using his daggers for damage.

Basically, yes, they are using the daggers instead of their fists.

3#
Some classes can use daggers as implements. Some of those daggers are jagged. Those daggers have a curved shape. When you stab someone with a jagged dagger, the curved shape will cause additional damage.
This is translated in 4e as 'On a critical hit, target gains 10 ongoing damage. Save ends.'

If a sorcerer uses a jagged dagger, and he critical hits with an acid orb attack. Does the 10 ongoing damage still applies?

Since he didn't stab, I guess the jagged critical effect didn't work.
Or is this too much realism interpreted in d&d?

IIRC, that crit effect only applies to (weapon) attacks and not implement attacks.

4#
Can a fighter mark an enemy he can't see? (Fighter is blinded or enemy is invisible.)

What if the fighter can't see the enemy, but he knows it's there? (A PC can see the enemy, and he told the fighter where it is.)

What about hunter's quarry, avengers oath etc?


That is all I could think of right now. If anyone can help me with this, it will be appreciated.

Typically, the fighter can only mark enemies he hits. Additionally, if a creature is invisible, the fighter's opportunity attack doesn't trigger.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The fighter's Combat Challenge ability lets him mark any enemy he attacks, whether he hits or misses.

 

[S'mon]

Blindness and Invisibility are really problematic in 4e (IMO), because the rules say that if the PC can't see an enemy then the player/PC has to target a square and hope it's the right one, but the player can usually still see the enemy mini on the board. And it doesn't say anything about awareness of walls and other terrain elements for blind characters or characters in darkness. If you're blind and in melee, or in melee with an invisible foe, then -5 to hit works well enough, but if you're blind and there are numerous friends and enemies around you at various ranges, I can't see any reasonable way to handle it unless the PC can make a hard PER check to pick out the various sounds.

I guess one possibility would be to blindfold the player, turn them around, *then* get them to choose a square.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Blindness and Invisibility are really problematic in 4e (IMO), because the rules say that if the PC can't see an enemy then the player/PC has to target a square and hope it's the right one, but the player can usually still see the enemy mini on the board.

That's a common misreading of the rules. Blindness and Invisibility still let you know where your enemy is, only Stealth prevents that. (In other words, blindness is not blindness, and invisibility is not invisibility.)

So that's why I linked that set of rules. It might say something about "Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible" but it's a legit link at the WotC forum.

 

[Spatula]

A dagger is not an implement. A ki focus is an implement, I think.

Monks (and I think assassins) can use any weapon with which they are proficient as an implement. That's especially important for monks, who have 100% implement attacks.

Also, sorcerers can use daggers as implements.

2# If a monk uses daggers, are they stabbing/cutting instead of punching?

Yes, but possibly there are punches & kicks & such thrown in there too. It doesn't matter as far as the numbers go; monk attacks do the same damage regardless of what type of weapon the monk is using.

And you don't get the dagger's proficiency bonus to hit with monk attacks.

An adventurer gains the proficiency bonus only when wielding the weapon and using powers that have the weapon keyword.

3# If a sorcerer uses a jagged dagger, and he critical hits with an acid orb attack. Does the 10 ongoing damage still applies?

Not sure on this one. Using weapons as implements can be confusing.

4# Can a fighter mark an enemy he can't see? (Fighter is blinded or enemy is invisible.)

Since the only requirement is that the fighter attack an enemy to mark it, and you don't necessarily need line of sight to attack a target, yes.

What about hunter's quarry, avengers oath etc?

Good question! I would be inclined to say no, you have to be able to see the target of those abilities. That's a strange little wrinkle in the rules, though.

 

[S'mon]

That's a common misreading of the rules. Blindness and Invisibility still let you know where your enemy is, only Stealth prevents that. (In other words, blindness is not blindness, and invisibility is not invisibility.)

So that's why I linked that set of rules. It might say something about "Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible" but it's a legit link at the WotC forum.

It doesn't say anything about blindness not being blindness or invisibility not making you invisible anywhere in the rules, AIR. In which case how can it be a misreading of the RAW, even if you're right about the RAI?

Edit: Are you saying that you never have to make a Perception check if there is no Stealth check? That can't be right, we make PER checks all the time to spot or hear stuff. And surely 'stuff' can include invisible people, even if they're not actively trying to be quiet?

Edit 2: Either way, I stand by Problematic.

 

[S'mon]

That's a common misreading of the rules. Blindness and Invisibility still let you know where your enemy is, only Stealth prevents that. (In other words, blindness is not blindness, and invisibility is not invisibility.)

So that's why I linked that set of rules. It might say something about "Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible" but it's a legit link at the WotC forum.

Here's the start of what you linked, by "LordofWeaseals":


The Rules Of Hidden Club:


Things you can't see and things you can't find, in D&D.


Knowing what you can and can't see, and what you can and can't target, and knowing when you get to say "I aim at the invisible guy in that square" versus "I don't know where he is, I'll just guess", is very important in D&D. The purpose of this mini-guide is to clarify the rules for Stealth and invisibility, and how they interact.


The Premises, AKA The Core Rules That You Need To Know FIRST:


The First Premise: Everyone knows where everyone else is, at all times, period.

No, seriously. EVERYONE. EVERYWHERE. ALWAYS. There is no such thing as a combatant whose current position you do not know. Except....

The Second Premise: There is one and only one exception to The First Premise, and that exception is Hidden.

The status "Hidden", achievable only through rolling Stealth, is the only exception to this. It is the only way by which anyone can be uncertain about the current position of anyone else.

If you are not Hidden, EVERYONE KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE, PERIOD. If you are Hidden, anyone you are Hidden from must guess your current location.

My first question is: Who is LordOfWeseals?

 

[malraux]

It doesn't say anything about blindness not being blindness or invisibility not making you invisible anywhere in the rules, AIR. In which case how can it be a misreading of the RAW, even if you're right about the RAI?

Edit: Are you saying that you never have to make a Perception check if there is no Stealth check? That can't be right, we make PER checks all the time to spot or hear stuff. And surely 'stuff' can include invisible people, even if they're not actively trying to be quiet?

Edit 2: Either way, I stand by Problematic.

It's presumed that in combat, you know where all enemies are unless they have some way of getting total concealment and then make a stealth check that beats your perception check. Just going invisible doesn't make them disappear, they also have to roll stealth (which they can do because invisibility grants total concealment). Only after the accompanying stealth check can you not see them.