Half-dragon as a class

[emoplato]

Ok that's just simply untrue Irdegg, Many classes run 2-3 such primary abilities.

Just look at the druid, it's got full casting an animal companion, and wildshaping.

Ranger: Combat style, animal companion

Paladin: Smiting, Mount

Barbarian: Rage, great survivability

Rogue: Sneak attack, skill monkey, survivability

Furthermore I'm trying very hard to avoid the mistakes of the monk's unarmed progression here. The monk fell into the trap of suck now, be great later. I.e. their damage output compared to a similarly focused martial weapon using class was low until their base damage got bosted a few times at which point it became increasingly difficult for the weapon user to keep up.

Yes I want the natural weapons to be improved at higher levels but I like the idea of doing that with abilities instead of increasing base damage.

I'm working on some fear effects that I think should be the last major ability, and involves all the other abilities. I just really wish I could implement the skill use version, I'm just worried it'd be OP with all the cheap massive skill boosters.

So I'm thinking a more traditional type thing, Will save to avoid being shaken when X happens, increasing area and the number of triggers as level increases.

Well, yes, they do have multiple capabilities but they all have a theme and something that is iconic to them specifically. The Barbarian's most iconic feature is rage and their outside the system, rough and tumble characteristics is part of their theme. You should ask yourself what sort of person would be this? As for breath weapons dragonfire adepts have that covered pretty well. As for natural attack damage the fundamental problem is that they technically they can't be considered two-handed to rack up base damage and multiple damage. Also, of course multi-striking benefits from extra damage die more than the other as usually they only pertain to one. I would say instead of a breath weapon they could add energy damage to their natural attacks. What kind of course will all be dependent on what mechanic they can utilize which probably would be based on what theme you have.

 

[cjosephs1s]

Well the unarmed damage output is why I suggested it where I did with a bite at 1d6 or start with 2 claws at 1d4 each. Then you can boost the damage dice as the progression unfolds and still be about in line with a fighter all the way as far as average damage output is concerned when the class goes to large size. Otherwise you just reverse the monk problem of natural attacks do a lot damage in the beginning and are overpowered but then at later levels they become either underpowered or are still overpowered due to their extra abilities. The idea is to make its natural attacks as appealing as weapons or moreso but still maintain balance with other fighter types. Unless you want a berserker style?. Seeing as how its attacks will only crit on a 20 while many fighters will take feats and weapons to allow a large crit range and decent damage the extra damage dice from large should make up for it. If anyone wants to do the math be my guest. I'm just guessing here.

But Emo did touch on something that I thought of earlier and is right about. There still needs to be balance so if it gets a good BAB, good HD, normal saves, normal damage, Average armor for a fighter type, something about the breath weapon has to be minimized to balance it out. Maybe make the breath weapon a full round action give it a certain damage output and leave it alone...like it does 8d8 but doesn't get any bigger and the save is based on 10+1/2HD+ability modifier (con is a good one). And wait till mid levels to give it to the toon..like level 8 or higher. Right now we just keep adding and adding stuff. At some point he has to be bad at something and this is where the concept of the character needs to be developed a little more. Any ideas OP? Berserker? Tank? ect....

As far as energy weapons for claws I think there's a feat for that in one of the dragon books. If so, let the player use it..don't just give it to them. Keep in mind this will add an extra 5d6 damage at at the end of progression.

 

[emoplato]

I say get rid of the breath weapon, I know this is a draconic class we are dealing with but there are so many ways to get one if a player really wants one. Also, the base damage of a full Dragonfire Adept's breath weapon is 9d6 so 8d8, no. It really sounds like a natural weapon tank, plus I think there can be some room for some frightful presence/fear abilities.

 

[Rampant]

@ CJ: And now you know why I came up with making them choose between extra natural armor and more nat weapons. I suggest you go back and read the class again, it's been updated quite a bit since the nat attacks did x2 on a 20. You keep describing things that are already up on the class or you already talked me out of.

Every single nat weapon user uses the little dice to big dice progression, why not mix it up a bit? use dice in line with martial weapons and then focus on special abilities or extra attacks? Even if I go large size (which might not happen) I think it balances cause it's a lot like a fighter picking up an oversized weapon. Since the nat weapons don't get iterative attacks the way normal weapons do it takes a lot more investment to keep them at top-flight.

Also, every time some suggests a fixed damage breath weapon Tiamat chomps a Psuedo-dragon.

As for the character being bad at Something, i don't quite see that as a necessity, we just have to make sure he's not good at everything, and not completely god-like within his sphere of specialization. I mean the rogue and barbarian aren't particularly worse at anything than any other class.

The breath weapon is limited by the wait time, if you think the wait time is too small, i could set it to a flat 5 rounds like the binder abilities, and not decrease it with level. It is already based on that con save.

The idea of this class is to basically dominate his area, focus as much attention on himself as possible and let the rest of the characters do their thing. A lot like a knight really, only without the need to be near his allies. Things like the breath weapon, fear, and potentially multiple natural attacks are what I figured he'd need to do this.

There is no feat from draconomicon that I know of that allows for energy boosts to your nat weapons, there is a dragon magic/races of dragon feat that gives half-dragon barbarians an elemental damage boost to their bit attack while raging.

@ Emo: Hmm you've got a point, the breath damage per round should not exceed that of the D.F.A. What if we dropped the damage to d6s and/or had a set round count between breaths instead of one that decreases as you level.

 

[cjosephs1s]

Chalk one up on the "i'm an idiot" column for me. I didn't realize you were actually updating the original class progression you posted. DOAH! "smacks forehead" Looks a lot better than the very first time I read it back when you posted. Nicely done. huzzah to you and all the good ideas so far!!!!

And i think you said it better about being bad at something..just not good at everything.

Hmmm..so improving natural attacks. Rend or rake would be cool since he has claws.

For certain types of dragons they could get a poison attack with their bite.

I like my berserker idea as that holds its own and cares nothing about what everyone else is doing. If they choose to be all go no armor this would fit right in. You could give them extra str for it, extra damage, and maybe even an extra attack and its usuable like rage so like 3 times per day at level 20 for con+5 rounds and they are fatigued or exhausted (like a -6 to everything for an hour) after the battle. Or some other type of buffs that go along with being an insane bloodthirsty warrior looking to kill everything in sight.

I think if they went the other way and went for mucho defense something like Catch Arrows would be cool except for melee weapons. Maybe like a Catch Cudgel? Where they could stop a melee attack with a bludgenoning weapon with their bare hands? Stop Sword use their bite attack to catch it (we've all seen this in the movies and its just cool especially when the critter bites the sword and breaks it) maybe then it gets a free chance to sunder the weapon as the next progression?

Hopefully those are new ideas and I'll remember to check the original post more often to see what's been updated..lol

 

[emoplato]

As far as energy weapons for claws I think there's a feat for that in one of the dragon books. If so, let the player use it..don't just give it to them. Keep in mind this will add an extra 5d6 damage at at the end of progression.

I don't think there is. In Races of Dragon there is feat called Furious Inhalation which allowed during a rage to make a bite that also dealt 2d6 energy damage to that of your breath weapon. There is also the monk draconic fist which actually is a very good trade, but that is an ACF.

 

[Rampant]

I'm not looking to improve the damage output of the claw attacks, I'm mostly worried that Wing is underpowered.

I may come back and add in some other options like improving tail to tail sweep, or that auto-sunder bite thing., but that'd cost feats or another use of the natural armament ability.

ACF?

 

[emoplato]

I'm not looking to improve the damage output of the claw attacks, I'm mostly worried that Wing is underpowered.

I may come back and add in some other options like improving tail to tail sweep, or that auto-sunder bite thing., but that'd cost feats or another use of the natural armament ability.

ACF?

How about this, at the beginning of the class you have different draconic paths to choose from. These wouldn't be based upon different dragon species but different aspects of the dragon. The frightful presence will be standard just as some very basic attacks and draconic characteristics, bite, claw, and wings as this class develops but the form will develop differently based on which path a player chooses. Then each one would have their own abilities, one could maybe use your tail like a spiked chain. Another could initiate a breath weapon after a successful bite only to the one victim. Another could focus on wings having increased speed, maneuverability, and maybe a multiplier in damage after moving so far.
As for Frightful presence I think this could be really fun. As move actions maybe you could bestow additional negative effects for those shaken to it. One could have additional attack or defense penalties, maybe to where they can't make move or standard actions.

 

[Rampant]

Well that sounds cool and all, but isn't that what prcs are for?

Although I guess if I do it that way I don't need prcs.... hmmmmmmm.

 

[irdeggman]

For various natural weapon types focus - look at the Shifter race in Eberron. There are feat chains that work with them and each racial feat taken increases the number of times a character can shift.