What doesn't belong in the "core"

I love gnomes. :.-( But I seem to be the only one I've ever seen playing one in all my years of D&D.

I've been playing since Skylab and I've only seen one gnome (sigh, "Uncle Bignose") and one halfling.

Yet here they are, PHB after PHB, waiting to suck. I'm sure the little creeps will be in 5e, but that's fine---someone must like 'em.
 

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I love reading posts like this (and there are a bunch here) talking about what someone wants/demands/will not abide without. Its only wind in the forest moving the trees.
That statement seems reminiscent of the notorious "you're all just watching the clouds" blog post from one of the 4E designers in the lead-up to that game.

The subtext is, you're powerless and your opinion doesn't matter. I think the D&D audience kind of proved that hubris for what it was worth.

And I have managed my expectations - early indications are "castles & crusades + some tweaks & 4E implied setting trimmings", which is most of what I need to know, if it's true.
 

They are sneaky little guys with a flair for the dramatic and a genius for illusions, clockworks and alchemy. In other words, all the stuff showmen and stage magicians can do.

What's not to like?
 




The problem is what constitutes the "fantasy archetypes" worth saving.

The cleric, as D&D defines it, is a D&D only trope. Spellcasting warrior-priests don't have much of a home pre-D&D, and post D&D uses of the "healer/priest" archetype rarely used maces, wore armor, and drove back the undead with a holy symbol. However, the cleric is as old as D&D itself. Ditto with gnomes, whose fluff seems to differ from one edition to the next (from small magic-using dwarves to absent-minded professors to sly practical jokers to fey renegades). Hell, warlock's probably got more fantasy archetype right to the PHB than monk or paladin has.

Soon, the whole thing comes down to "my taste" and notion of core dissolves. I've been on this board long enough to argue the validity and inclusion of thieves, rogues, bards, barbarians, cavaliers, assassins, monks, sorcerers, paladins, druids, clerics, gnomes, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs, warlords, avengers, illusionists, dragonborn, eladrin, tieflings, goliaths, warforged, drow, changlings, psionics, rangers who dual-wield, rangers with animal companions, multi-classing, dual-classing, hybrid-classing, dwarven wizards, elven barbarians, gnomish barbarians, halfling monks, and whatever the gish class of the week is.

I'm convinced if it was done to account for everyone's taste, the core would only be humans, fighters, and wizards, and someone would be bawwwing that they wanted a low-magic option. :erm:
 

I'm convinced if it was done to account for everyone's taste, the core would only be humans, fighters, and wizards, and someone would be bawwwing that they wanted a low-magic option.
Yes, there are compelling arguments as to why the rogue/thief and cleric should be excluded from the game. Your example is mainly an exercise in reductio ad absurdum though. If the design team did not like the warlord, it would probably not be there, whatever you or I thought. Doesn't make their decision any more valid than ours, but what is the use in pointing out that yes, this is an issue that can be argued for or against?
 

Yes, there are compelling arguments as to why the rogue/thief and cleric should be excluded from the game. Your example is mainly an exercise in reductio ad absurdum though. If the design team did not like the warlord, it would probably not be there, whatever you or I thought. Doesn't make their decision any more valid than ours, but what is the use in pointing out that yes, this is an issue that can be argued for or against?

From a practical standpoint, its a wise move on WotC's part to include all 15 classes and 10 races as an olive branch to whatever edition you're migrating from. 4e got hammered pretty bad for having players wait 2 or 3 years to play bards, monks, or barbarians.

I think the bigger issue is what the meaning of "core" is. D&D always had "optional" classes. Basic D&D (via the Cyclopedia) called out druids and mystics (monks) as "ask your DM". Ditto 1e with monk, bard, and psionics. 2e made sure to call to attention paladins, druids, bards, rangers, and specialist wizards were all optional, as were proficiencies and a host of combat rules from critical hits to weapon speeds. Its really only 3e on that "everything is kosher" infects the PHB, and even 3e had "rule 0" in it.

I suspect those more controversial options (most of the 4e additions, some of the rarer classes like monk or assassin) will be labeled uncommon/rare and have big "ask your DM" labels slapped on them.
 

You make a good argument save for setting retcons required, of the "gate a kingdom of dragonborn into FR" type. Slight fly in the ointment, that.

Then there's adventure NPCs and their roles & stats, artwork, build discussions etc. The status of "core" does infect a lot of other material.
 
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