Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[variant]

If they would limit to just the base four base races, they could expand upon those races a lot more such as with racial classes or a point based system to customize them as there would be more room in the book for them.

Then when they release new books, they could do the same with all other races they want to add.

 

[CasvalRemDeikun]

You are confusing crap that gets on my nerves with not having the strength to enforce my decisions.

So, it isn't so much that you lack the will to place limitations on your own campaigns, it is you are annoyed with certain options in the game, so you feel no one should be able to use those options? And so, instead of you having to lay down ground rules when you form a gaming group, those of us that like the half-orc or the tiefling(core races, mind you) must buy another book in order to play them?

Because saying "I don't allow Half-orcs or Tieflings in my campaigns" is just too hard. Here is the thing, if the player takes issue with that, they can find another group. And if they insist on staying, they will probably say "Half-Orcs aren't allowed, oh, okay, I will play a human instead".

 

[variant]

So, it isn't so much that you lack the will to place limitations on your own campaigns, it is you are annoyed with certain options in the game, so you feel no one should be able to use those options? And so, instead of you having to lay down ground rules when you form a gaming group, those of us that like the half-orc or the tiefling(core races, mind you) must buy another book in order to play them?

Because saying "I don't allow Half-orcs or Tieflings in my campaigns" is just too hard. Here is the thing, if the player takes issue with that, they can find another group. And if they insist on staying, they will probably say "Half-Orcs aren't allowed, oh, okay, I will play a human instead".

So since you are so gun-ho about including races then you wouldn't mind filling the entire PHB with races. Just leave out the classes, equipment, and rules.

 

[Khaalis]

Except from my experience, most people don't deem anything in the Player's Handbook to fall under "Rule 0".

Then this is definitely a personal thing. As a player and DM, Rule 0 has always ruled in every game I've played in over the last 30 years or so.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Rather than the symmetry of races to ability score bonuses/penalties, I'd just like to see a little ecological sense. Elves live in the forests, humans favour urban environments, halflings more rural settlements, dwarves in the hills and mountains. Where the heck do Tieflings hang out (other than with humans)? If you want to fill out the race line-up, perhaps we need a desert race, or an arctic race, or a coastal race? Could existing races be themed to fit these locations?

 

[CasvalRemDeikun]

So since you are so gun-ho about including races then you wouldn't mind filling the entire PHB with races. Just leave out the classes, equipment, and rules.

Huh, I didn't realize I was advocating filling the PHB with races. I am advocating putting races that have been core races in the past in there, much like WotC claims they are going to be doing with classes. You are going to be hard pressed to find too many people that will advocate limitations as being better than options. Limitations can be set after the fact, options don't materialize out of thin air.

Don't dictate how I run my games because you are unable to dictate how you run yours.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Impossible. If they include the Tiefling but not the Gnome, they will anger one side; if they include the Gnome but not the Tiefling, they will anger the other. The only way to satisfy both camps would seem be to include all the previously-core races: Human, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Half-elf, Half-orc, Halfling and Tiefling.

But even the all-inclusive model won't work. The Dragonborn, in particular, have some very vocal fans, but there is also a very vocal group who very definitely don't want them included in the core.

If the 'big 4' are indeed so overwhelmingly popular (which I'm honestly not certain I believe, but don't have any actual reason to doubt), then perhaps the way forward is to include only those in the core, and make everything else an option.



Fair enough, but if each race takes up a 2-page spread (as in 4e), then for each race you include you're going to have to cut something substantial to make room. Is your desire for races that you rarely use (or, worse, ones you're going to houserule out of your game) really so great that you're willing to lose, say, magic items from the core entirely?

Just move the magic items back to the DMG to make room for races and options. Also 4E had pretty big font. They can always go back to a tighter layout with less white space and lower font size to fit in more material.

Having only four core races is probably not going to be popular. They will simply have to find the most acceptable solution to all sides. My guess is that means to have the races I want, there may be some races in there I am not so fond of. But the solution isn't to cater entirely to DDI fans or 3e fans. They need to attract both groups to achieve their goal.

 

[Oni]

If you're running the game just lay down your ground rules, if you don't like whining, don't play with whiny people. If you're not running the game, why should you be able to play the race you want by the guy across the table not be able to? Because you don't like it?

Either way your desire sounds incredible selfish, since it is something that tons of people do enjoy and can be ignored without affecting the game one tiny iota.

 

[Khaalis]

So since you are so gun-ho about including races then you wouldn't mind filling the entire PHB with races. Just leave out the classes, equipment, and rules.

Have you looked at other games? Take Fantasy Craft. "Core" races are Drakes, Dwarves, Elves, Giants, Goblins, Humans, Ogres, Orcs, Pechs, Rootwalers (aka Treants), Saurian (aka Lizard-folk), and Unborn (aka Warroged or Golems).

That's a pretty hefty list of race and NOT the standard D&D fare. To boot? They include about 390 pages of "classes, equipment, and rules".

 

[variant]

Have you looked at other games? Take Fantasy Craft. "Core" races are Drakes, Dwarves, Elves, Giants, Goblins, Humans, Ogres, Orcs, Pechs, Rootwalers (aka Treants), Saurian (aka Lizard-folk), and Unborn (aka Warroged or Golems).

That's a pretty hefty list of race and NOT the standard D&D fare. To boot? They include about 390 pages of "classes, equipment, and rules".

I really don't care what other games have. There are a number of reasons I don't play them.