Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[Li Shenron]

I don't like half-races. But half-elves and half-orcs are traditional in D&D so I think it's fair that they are included in the PHB. In the past I've tried to ban both of them (and gnomes) from my campaign, but when gaming with new players it doesn't feel nice to start off with restricting PHB material already, so today I would rather allow them but with a warning that if you want to be a half-elf or half-orc you're probably going to be the only one you'll ever see, at least for a long time.

Tieflings, aasimar and drow are less traditional as PC races, but still I would not mind to see them in the PHB. However I prefer these races to be above average, so I hope that they are made more powerful and given a LA or something similar, rather than nerfing them down only to allow 1st-level characters (although if they can pull this off with a special rule, such as e.g. having 0 levels in classes or other penalties, then I'm fine).

Dragonborn and warforged, hell no! Not in my PHB... they are way too weirdos and have too short tradition to pretend a space in core, but you can put them in the DMG if you want.

 

[Khaalis]

I really don't care what other games have. There are a number of reasons I don't play them.

Well to be honest it doesn't sounds like you play D&D either. There is a lot more to D&D races than "Human, elf, halfling, and dwarf". Just because you personally don't like/want others in the PHB, puts you very likely in a small minority. If absolutely nothing else the Half-Elf, the Gnome and Half-Orc have all been around as core races since 1E.

 

[variant]

Well to be honest it doesn't sounds like you play D&D either. There is a lot more to D&D races than "Human, elf, halfling, and dwarf". Just because you personally don't like/want others in the PHB, puts you very likely in a small minority. If absolutely nothing else the Half-Elf, the Gnome and Half-Orc have all been around as core races since 1E.

I still remember the outrage from people on forums when Tiefling was announced in the 4e PHB.

Half-Orc was removed in 2e.

 

[Oni]

I still remember the outrage from people on forums when Tiefling was announced in the 4e PHB.

Half-Orc was removed in 2e.

If I recall correctly the outrage over Tieflings had a lot more to do with the art than anything else.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't like half-races. But half-elves and half-orcs are traditional in D&D so I think it's fair that they are included in the PHB. In the past I've tried to ban both of them (and gnomes) from my campaign, but when gaming with new players it doesn't feel nice to start off with restricting PHB material already, so today I would rather allow them but with a warning that if you want to be a half-elf or half-orc you're probably going to be the only one you'll ever see, at least for a long time.

Tieflings, aasimar and drow are less traditional as PC races, but still I would not mind to see them in the PHB. However I prefer these races to be above average, so I hope that they are made more powerful and given a LA or something similar, rather than nerfing them down only to allow 1st-level characters (although if they can pull this off with a special rule, such as e.g. having 0 levels in classes or other penalties, then I'm fine).

Dragonborn and warforged, hell no! Not in my PHB... they are way too weirdos and have too short tradition to pretend a space in core, but you can put them in the DMG if you want.

I can still play my minotaur wizard or my goblin paladin, right?

 

[Ichneumon]

So, you're a DM, you're starting a campaign, and there's a race in the PHB that you don't like at all. What do you do?

First, why not consider giving it a chance? Let a player run one, and see if it really is as bad 'live' at it seems in print. Magnanimity goes a long way in helping to build a stable group and a happy gaming environment.

But if you insist on excluding it from your game, try to find a more creative reason than "I don't like it". There are few greyer palls over a campaign than obvious DM prejudice. Perhaps tieflings were all slaughtered in battle centuries ago - this could lead to PCs adventuring in tiefling city ruins. Maybe it's well known that tieflings are a myth; the concoction of folks who've had too much mead and thought they saw someone with devil horns. Perhaps orc and humans could once breed, but the resulting half-orcs were so powerful that Gruumsh foresaw that soon one of them would become mighty enough to depose him unless he acted. So he cursed orcs, making their blood unable to mingle with that of humans.

Reasons like that help to enrich your campaign, so that it makes sense that these races aren't here in this particular world. Furthermore, they offer the chance to reintroduce them if you ever change your mind, possibly via an epic quest.

 

[tlantl]

Half-Orc was removed in 2e.

It was? I must have skipped all of the even numbered editions because although I own many 2e books I only used the good stuff from them.

If it got changed from the way it was in 1e then we ignored it. It's kind of hard to play a half orc fighter/assassin if the race and class don't exist any more.

I liked enough about 3e that we adopted it around the time 3.5 was released. Too bad they ruined as much as they fixed.

 

[Libramarian]

Nope. He isn't, he is spot on.

And really, maybe gaming can teach you some tolerance. RPGs are a social hobby. Deal with it.

If everybody would learn to accept other people's chosen race in a game, they might even learn to accept other people's born race in real life. And that would make this planet so much nicer to live on.

/thread

No, those things are unrelated.

(Thread appears to still be open).

 

[thewok]

So since you are so gun-ho about including races then you wouldn't mind filling the entire PHB with races. Just leave out the classes, equipment, and rules.

Wow. This is a horrible argument, and a fallacious one, to boot, but I'm not going to go look up exactly what it is because it doesn't matter. All that matters is that your retort here is pretty hyperbolic and, quite frankly, dumb.

If we assume that each race gets two pages like in 4E (a lot of space for a race, but I happen to like that format), and that they include each race that was core in both 3E and 4E, then the race chapter of the book will come out to 22 pages. Eleven races (dragonborn, drow, dwarf, eladrin, elf, gnome, half elf, half orc, halfling, human, tiefling) at two pages each comes to 22 pages. Out of a 220-page book.

I can handle 10% of a player's handbook being devoted to races.

Actually, I could handle 20% of the book devoted to races. Races are the very first and most visible way of creating flavor in a game. The more options, the better.

 

[variant]

Wow. This is a horrible argument, and a fallacious one, to boot, but I'm not going to go look up exactly what it is because it doesn't matter. All that matters is that your retort here is pretty hyperbolic and, quite frankly, dumb.

If we assume that each race gets two pages like in 4E (a lot of space for a race, but I happen to like that format), and that they include each race that was core in both 3E and 4E, then the race chapter of the book will come out to 22 pages. Eleven races (dragonborn, drow, dwarf, eladrin, elf, gnome, half elf, half orc, halfling, human, tiefling) at two pages each comes to 22 pages. Out of a 220-page book.

I can handle 10% of a player's handbook being devoted to races.

Actually, I could handle 20% of the book devoted to races. Races are the very first and most visible way of creating flavor in a game. The more options, the better.

Any space dedicated to other races is less space dedicated to the four most popular races.