Does Hypnotism automatically start a combat?

[Noumenon]

Would you agree that Silent Spell can't be used with Suggestion or Still Spell with the gem-placing requirement on Animate Dead?

 

[Vegepygmy]

Is this spell supposed to be like suggestion if you can catch an enemy alone, or only if you cast it on a friendly willing target? Is it supposed to be near-useless in the default dungeon situation, or is it a spell that could work well if you get it off before they act and then talk to the rest of the party instead of fight?

I think it's pretty clearly intended to be used before combat has started, and not automatically start one whenever it is used. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have bothered to explain how it is less effective in combat, they'd have just made it less effective, period.

 

[Noumenon]

I think it's pretty clearly intended to be used before combat has http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...notism-automatically-start-combat.htmlstarted, and not automatically start one whenever it is used. If it wasn't, they wouldn't have bothered to explain how it is less effective in combat, they'd have just made it less effective, period.

OK, here's how I'm going to enable that. HOUSE RULE: The verbal droning and somatic gestures for hypnotism do not resemble normal spellcasting (no Spellcraft check) and are not automatically enough to be threatening in and of themselves.

 

[LiL KiNG]

frankthedm may sound a bit paranoid, but he's right about your environment playing into peoples reactions. Right now we're playing a FR campaign in the Chondathan region and the fluff for that area says the populace is suspicious of spell casters and displays of magic... so they may become hostile or defensive at the first sign of casting.
Of course this is completely situational for the overall setting, environment, and DM's perspectives.

 

[Vegepygmy]

OK, here's how I'm going to enable that. HOUSE RULE: The verbal droning and somatic gestures for hypnotism do not resemble normal spellcasting (no Spellcraft check) and are not automatically threatening in and of themselves.

I don't see any reason to disallow Spellcraft checks, but do as you like.

 

[Noumenon]

If I do a Spellcraft check and you're casting hypnotism on me, I'm going to hurt you. So if I want hypnotism to be castable outside of combat, the gestures need to slowly lull the target into a trance without anyone ever thinking to make a Spellcraft check.

This is similar to how illusions in combat need some kind of rule or feat that lets you Bluff versus Spellcraft or they're useless.

 

[Vegepygmy]

If I do a Spellcraft check and you're casting hypnotism on me, I'm going to hurt you. So if I want hypnotism to be castable outside of combat, the gestures need to slowly lull the target into a trance without anyone ever thinking to make a Spellcraft check.

This seems to assume that every combat involves an opponent trained in Spellcraft. That may be true in your games, but it certainly isn't in mine.

This is similar to how illusions in combat need some kind of rule or feat that lets you Bluff versus Spellcraft or they're useless.

It is indeed similar, since that isn't true, either.

 

[Noumenon]

I'm DMing right now, trying to hypnotise PCs with a dust mephit sorcerer flitting about some abandoned mine tunnels. That's why I was assuming Spellcraft. You're right though, I just did a search through the whole module and there are only four or five Spellcraft users. I guess I don't need that fix.

 

[Noumenon]

In play report:
As one character waited in the mine corridor, the dust mephit sorcerer came upon him alone. I gave the mephit a free surprise round to give hypnotism a chance of working. "He's making various droning incantations and gestures," I said. "Hypnotism," the player said, rolled initiative, and shot the mephit down with one scorching ray. What a stupid spell. I don't even blame him for metagaming.

I think the only way to use hypnotism outside of combat would be by special DM fiat narration that the target doesn't notice anything unusual: "his droning words lull you and you find yourself getting very sleepy... very sleepy... it suddenly occurs to you that this might be a spell, but [rolls save] it's too late." That's what I'll try next time.

 

[Empath Negative]

I believe the default use is amongst those otherwise indifferent to you.