Iconic D&D Clerics (Blog)

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Bruce Cordell's last blog post about clerics for a while, and whether they should be split up into mace-wielding and armored iconic cleric, and robe wearing divine caster priest.

Iconic D&D Clerics

Personally... I definitely believe there should be a separation between the "generic" divine character, and one who is influenced by the domains and portfolios of the god they follow. Same way I think there should be a separation between the "generic" arcane caster and the one who is influenced by the schools of magic they use.

So we should have the generic Cleric, and the god-specific Priests.

Just like we should have the generic Wizard, and the school-specific Mages.
 

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I disagree.

I think the differences between the two come down to roleplaying how you want your holy man/woman/other to behave.

If anything, I think Paladins should be the default "martial cleric" where the generic cleric should be more akin to the priestly sort. (Med/light armor, maces/clubs etc)
 

Bruce Cordell's last blog post about clerics for a while, and whether they should be split up into mace-wielding and armored iconic cleric, and robe wearing divine caster priest.
I think it is interesting. It makes at least as much sense as splitting up the ranger into Two-Weapon Fighter and Archer subtypes.
 

Well, here's the thing:

Is the fighter a general warrior with access to a wide variety of weapons and armor, or is he a weapon master that focuses on one set of equipment?

Is the wizard a general spellcaster with access to a wide variety of spells and incantation, or is she a focused spellcaster who specializes in one school of magic?

Is the thief a general rogue with access to a breadth of skills and resources, or is she a focused delver who specializes in stealth or intimidation or traps?

The cleric should be of a similar scope.

Are they a general divine prayer-maker with access to a variety of different divine powers, or are they a specific type of divine spellcaster who specializes in melee-mashing and healing and undead turning?

What level of focus should a class assume?

It's a specific design choice that'll have some pretty deep ramifications.

Forex, let's say all these classes ware generalists who have an option to slightly specialize. Your fighter can be slightly better with swords than with axes if he wants, but he's better with both than anyone else is. Your wizard can be slightly better at illusion than abjuration, but she's still better with both than anyone else is. Your rogue might be better at sneaking than at lock-picking, but she's still better at both than anyone else is. Your cleric might be better at healing than at calling down divine fire, but he's still great at both.

This means that it might be easier to "take a level of fighter" and have it mean different things for different characters. This means that you don't need a plethora of classes, just a few unique specializtions (assassins are generalist rogues who swap out backstabbing several times in combat for a one-time surprise-round death attack; illusionists are generalist spellcasters who swap out being good at, say, necromancy, for being better at illusion; paladins are clerics who swap out spellcasting for smiting power; warlocks are wizards who use at-will spells rather than daily spells; etc.). It makes the puzzle pieces either to futz with.

It does lead to a weaker archetype. If any bow-wielding dude in light armor could be a fighter, a ranger, a thief, or even a wizard (think: arcane archer), or even a cleric (think: of Corellon), it's a little less iconic than "THIS IS THE RANGER."

But, personally, I think it's a bit better. It's easier for DMs to customize class features than to write entirely new classes ("It's exactly like the cleric but XYZ is replaced with ABC!"), and it's easier to fit a class into a broad range of campaigns and styles if it has a broad base of abilities (okay, in this Vikings-inspired campaign, a lot of fighters use the Barbarian options for rage and such; you found a magic mace, I guess the cleric can use it, even if she prefers the sickle!).

The alternative is to design something unique for each niche, and I think you can go that way to a certain extent, but at its extreme it results in hyper-specializtion, which is a problem for customizability. If clerics are only heavily armored mace-wielding undead-turners who heal, then I need a brand new class to represent my temple virgin priest of the goddess of lust and temptation, or my sailing priestess of the god of storms and the sea. That's a lot of work for a relatively minor change.

There's problems if you go too far in the "generic" direction, too, but I think a 5e that says "Here's a general cleric, and HERE is an archetypal mace-wielding turn-undead healbot cleric, that fits nicely within the umbrella of "cleric"" would be just fine.

...of course, too far in the generic direction and you have a functionally classless game where you just mix and match different abilities to create the character you want. Which isn't exactly D&D. But I don't think you necessarily need to go that far.
 

Divine Warrior: Paladin
The paladin is a warrior blessed by a divine force to defeat evil, protect the vitues of their diety, heal the sick or injured, and can maybe turn undead.

Divine Expert/Aristocrat: Cleric
The cleric is an armor-wearing aristocrat who can heal allies, cast divine spells, and turn undead.

Divine Spellcaster: Priest
The priest a robe-wearing spellcaster who focuses on divine spells, has special deity-granted powers, can heal, and can maybe turn undead.
 

The real problem with the cleric class is that it lacks a fantasy archetype outside of D&D (and D&D-inspired fiction).

In most fantasy fiction, spellcasting priests are just that - priests who cast magic spells. They're basically wizards sanctioned by the church. Or they're holy warriors who cast a few magic spells.

'Paladin' actually HAS a fantasy archetype in some of the heroes from the Arthurian Legends. Clerics? Not so much. The whole evil priest/necromancer from Sword & Sorcery is usually more wizard than cleric.

Originally, the D&D cleric was a kind of fighter/mage. He can wear armor, and fights almost as well as a fighter, but he can cast a few support spells - mostly out of combat. Once you create a blasty cleric, you have a problem. You now have a wizard who can wear armor. No matter how you slice it, that makes the wizard seem weak, which means that the actual "wizard" gets even MORE powerful spells. And very quickly, you leave the non-caster classes in the dust.

I have a theory that combining the necessary role of "healer" with that of "mage" would actually improve the balance of both classes. But the game wouldn't have the same "feel" as classic D&D.
 

If anything, I think Paladins should be the default "martial cleric" where the generic cleric should be more akin to the priestly sort. (Med/light armor, maces/clubs etc)

The problem is that traditionally, Paladins aren't really effective substitutes for Clerics as party healer. So either they break with tradition and give Paladins full (or near full) Cleric healing, or there's no true melee divine healer, which is also a break from tradition.

Tradition aside, I think there's enough difference between Paladin, and melee Cleric, to justify having both.
 

Iconically speaking, almost every rendition of a Cleric I've ever seen has been a mace-wielding face-smasher-caster. Personally I think this is why I've found paladin's so lacklucter(until 4e). Everything they can do a Cleric can do better.

Personally I would prefer to see clerics favor the lighter-armored, divine-caster range. The Priest, Invoker, and Avenger are all good candidates to fit in this realm. The Paladin should in turn get to stretch it's arms a little and pull in some of the more moderately armored, better divine caster elements the battle-cleric has generally held.
 

Here's a question I've been meaning to ask:

What is the thematic/story difference between a paladin and a cleric? Aren't these both essentially holy warriors?
 

The real problem with the cleric class is that it lacks a fantasy archetype outside of D&D (and D&D-inspired fiction).

The original cleric is based off of Van Helsing from Stoker's Dracula and was actually created to counter a powerful vampire pc in Arneson's original Blackmoor campaign.

Other good cleric models from Appendix N fiction are the Roger Bacon character from John Bellairs' Face in the Frost and Brother Parvus from Poul Anderson's High Crusade.
 

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