Pathfinder 1E Why Pathfinder?

[billd91]

What are some of the bonuses that are given to fighters and rogues, for example? Do you think they could be worked into a 3.5 game to balance things out with the spellcasters? I personally don't think the mages and clerics needed any more power, and the new abilities given to paladins and rangers give the impression of, "Oh, we're giving everyone else more power, so we have to do the same for them".

These questions and many more can be answered by checking the Pathfinder SRD. The vast bulk of PF is open content.
Pathfinder_OGC

 

[NotZenon]

I like pathfinder alot, and it is one of my games of choice due to the huge amount of support for it (adventure paths, and the such) and quite frankly alot of people interested in it, (its easy to find players).

That being said, in my opinion, pathfinder is basically 3.5 with more cool stuff. Tougher classes, clearer written spells and rules, tons of cool magic items and feats. Some of the problems of 3.5 are fixed, and others in my opinion are exaggerated (fighters for example although they get a power boost it doesn't really compare with the boost received by clerics/paladins/sorcerors, etc... which were already better classes to begin with)

If you want to play a FIXED 3.5 with 1E feel, i would suggest checking out Trailblazer. It basically fixes everything AND explains why it needed to be fixed. I haven't been able to find anyone else with the trailblazer ruleset, so i usually end up playing pathfinder and importing some of TB's changes.

 

[paladinm]

I did find a copy of Trailblazer.. What changes are you referring to? At first glimpse there seems to be a Lot in there, and I haven't had time to digest it as yet.

 

[pauljathome]

Are there any directions for designing 2e-type specialty clerics?

I never played 2nd edition so I can't answer directly. I will say what Pathfinder has for clerics.

Each cleric picks 2 domains. Which domains you get to select is restricted by your God. The domains get interesting powers together with a domain spell.

The powers, while not overpowering, go a fair ways mechanically to making clerics of different gods feel different.

There are also various "builds" you can make for clerics. Which stats you emphasize, which feats you take, etc. This also makes a "buff yourself into a fighter" cleric feel quite differently from a "support your allies from the rear" cleric. While the domain abilities do somewhat tie into this it is largely independent of the deity you worship except for roleplaying reasons (the cleric of Thor is a lot more likely to be a combatant than the cleric of Aphrodite).

There are also a reasonable number of archetypes if you want to take a cleric in a somewhat different direction. For example, you can have a cleric with some bard like abilities. All of these archetypes are fairly well balanced (if anything, almost all are weaker than the base cleric)

 

[gamerprinter]

If you like to use all pf the newer stuff (especially Tome of Battle) then you'll very likely prefer 4th edition to Pathfinder anyway (which is NOT meant to be any kind of jab at anybody. Tastes vary, Pathfinder is NOT for everybody).

Rite Publishing is currently still funding (reached it's first goal) for an IndieGoGo project in creating rules similar to Tome of Battle: Bo9S for Pathfinder (with a few more days left in funding stage). It won't be done the same, and emphasis will be on traits, feats, archetypes, prestige classes and perhaps one or two new base classes. The stances and the repeated power surges won't be included.

While Paizo isn't doing it, Rite Publishing is, so not everyone playing PF won't have access to something like the Tome of Battle...

 

[Ebony Dragon]

I personally don't think the mages and clerics needed any more power

Mages and Clerics got some new class powers as they level up in Pathfinder, but I have found their spell list and feat abuse combos to be way more balanced and under control. A lot of the power of 3.5 casters was from abusing the splat books and Spell Compendium to do ridiculous things that were probably never intended by the designers. Pathfinder has reigned that in by redesigning some problem spells and not reprinting the op feats. It makes a big difference.

So don't just look at is as "Oh god Wizards and Clerics have even more class abilities than they did in 3.5 - they are just making casters EVEN BETTER"
No, actually, casters in Pathfinder are weaker than in 3.5 due to many of their abusive things being changed from the feat and spell list. The class powers they get are useful, fun and flavorful, but not overpowered.

 

[Mad Hamish]

You could do 2nd ed specialty priests as Archetypes on clerics.

 

[Dandu]

Mages and Clerics got some new class powers as they level up in Pathfinder, but I have found their spell list and feat abuse combos to be way more balanced and under control. A lot of the power of 3.5 casters was from abusing the splat books and Spell Compendium to do ridiculous things that were probably never intended by the designers. Pathfinder has reigned that in by redesigning some problem spells and not reprinting the op feats. It makes a big difference.

I feel you, man. I hated seeing broken spells like Shapechange, Astral Projection, Time Stop, Gate, Wish, Miracle, Polymoph, Mind Blank, Polymorph Any Object, Planar Binding, Contingency, Contact Other Plane, Commune, Holy Word/Dictum/Blasphemy/Word of Chaos, Magic Gem, Solid Fog, Freedom of Movement, Divine Power, and Simulacrum appear in the 3.5 splats.

So don't just look at is as "Oh god Wizards and Clerics have even more class abilities than they did in 3.5 - they are just making casters EVEN BETTER"
No, actually, casters in Pathfinder are weaker than in 3.5 due to many of their abusive things being changed from the feat and spell list. The class powers they get are useful, fun and flavorful, but not overpowered.

From what I've been told on Giant in the Playground, Min/Max boards, and by StreamoftheSky, pellcasters are about as strong in Pathfinder as they were in 3.5. And judging from my (admittedly limited) experience with PF, that seems about right.

 

[Henry]

Other than buffing up characters all along the spectrum, what are some reasons to consider PF? What are some of the things that have been improved or cleaned-up from 3.5?
Gracias!

I felt similarly to you when first looking at the PF rules. There is some power increase; however, the increases for the monsters tend to balance it out. More importantly, the increases served one major function -- to allow more customization between PCs of the same class, as most had to do with things like exchanges for animal companions, or as noted tweaking things like the Paladin Smite or Bard songs that was needed to make those classes more appealing, or perhaps a better phrase is "more interesting."

In addition to the tweaks mentioned to energy drain, incorporeality, damage resistance, etc. there were tweaks to the math of spell concentration checks and tumble checks -- no longer is defensive casting for casters always a sure thing after they've maxed the skill, taken skill focus and a couple of feats, just as tumble always stays from level 1-20 as possessing a reasonable chance of failure.

In short, between these changes, concatenating the skill list, and streamlining a lot of problem spells to make them no longer obvious choices (such as the polymorph spells) I have played one or two 3.5 games a couple of years ago, and actually had a hard time going back to them -- I really missed the minor rules tweaks that made life easier.

 

[Henry]

From what I've been told on Giant in the Playground, Min/Max boards, and by StreamoftheSky, pellcasters are about as strong in Pathfinder as they were in 3.5. And judging from my (admittedly limited) experience with PF, that seems about right.

My experience has been different - between the adjustments to everything from the force wall/cage spells, to all the polymorphs, to most death-effect spells, even venerable wish (they removed the XP requirement, but added a 25,000gp diamond requirement, in my opinion even tougher to get than the XP ) Wizards, clerics, and druids were somewhat de-powered from 3.5 core rules, but were brought into line with other classes now.