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D&D 5E I Don't Like Damage On A Miss

JRRNeiklot

First Post
Scimitar Dance and Hammer Rhythm have been in 4e since day 1 - are people that dislike the Reaper people that never played 4e?

For that matter, fireballs have done half damage on a failed saving throw for... well, ages? I don't understand the special focus on the reaper feat (nor magic missile).

It's because of crap rules like Reaper and martial dailies and whatnot that I didn't play 4e.

As for fireball, it doesn't do damage on a miss. You get a save for rolling in a ball, diving behind furniture, etc. You're still in the middle of a fireball.
 

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IanB

First Post
The problem I have with damage is that it seems to break the norm for what an attack is. Normally, a hit means meaningful contact, and a miss represents a lack of meaningful contact. Damage is dealt when you make meaningful contact. But here, either damage is being dealt without meaningful contact, or meaningful contact is being made on a miss. I assume the former.

While I'm fine with the abstract nature of hit points, damage still always has a component of injury to it, even when it's inconsequential. This is why poison and other addition effects on a hit work. Thus, I have a difficult time imagining a scene where a fighter does damage (meaning) without a hit (meaningful contact).

The comparison to Fireball is understandable but flawed. In 3.5 at least, fireball's save was listed as "Reflex half". A reflex save wasn't required to make the spell miss. It was required to mitigate the damage taken from the fire. Basically, do you drop prone in time? Compare that to Flaming Sphere, where a reflex save negates all damage, meaning you can actually dodge the sphere.

I get what they're going for with the Slayer theme, and I won't froth at the mouth about it, but I'd like to see a different approach.

I don't find it hard to picture, really. You deflect the fighter's blow with your armor, or shield, but the impact is so strong that it still stings a little. Or the axe blow scrapes along the dragon's scales, not doing significant damage but still knocking a couple loose.

Narratively it is very easy to explain away I think.
 

Alukane

First Post
I don't like very much the reaper feature, it leades to unnatural situations, a few examples:

-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike
-A slayer, at first level, can autokill a bird flying at a distance of 319 feet. Blindfolded.
-A slayer, at first level, can damage an ancient dragon. Or a God. Maybe only a bit. But he damages it.
-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike

You shouldn't kill on a miss.
 

IanB

First Post
I agree completely. It does change the pace and feel of combat, though, and not everyone likes the change.

It isn't a change, though, not really - it is a 4th edition element. Reaping strike is a fighter at-will from the first 4e PH, and virtually every daily power that wasn't 'relaible' did half damage on a miss.
 

IanB

First Post
I don't like very much the reaper feature, it leades to unnatural situations, a few examples:

-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike
-A slayer, at first level, can autokill a bird flying at a distance of 319 feet. Blindfolded.
-A slayer, at first level, can damage an ancient dragon. Or a God. Maybe only a bit. But he damages it.
-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike

You shouldn't kill on a miss.

4e got around this with the minion rule - they never took damage on a miss. We don't know that 5e won't have a similar rule.
 

Alukane

First Post
4e got around this with the minion rule - they never took damage on a miss. We don't know that 5e won't have a similar rule.

Sure, but as written, with no minion system, it's a problem. At the very least should be melee only.
 

jadrax

Adventurer
I don't like very much the reaper feature, it leades to unnatural situations, a few examples:

-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike
-A slayer, at first level, can autokill a bird flying at a distance of 319 feet. Blindfolded.
-A slayer, at first level, can damage an ancient dragon. Or a God. Maybe only a bit. But he damages it.
-A slayer, at first level can autokill any commoner he dislike

You shouldn't kill on a miss.

Well two of those are the same and frankly are not an issue. One will be fixed if they add Damage Reduction and even if they do not is still probably not a problem. The final one is ludicrous and the GM should make a ruling to say it doesn't work because the player is being a rules lawyer.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
It isn't a change, though, not really - it is a 4th edition element. Reaping strike is a fighter at-will from the first 4e PH, and virtually every daily power that wasn't 'relaible' did half damage on a miss.
I think we are saying the same thing here. Not all of us play 4th Edition, after all.
 


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