Ditch Weapon And Armor Lists

[ArmoredSaint]

Good Lord, no!

The weapon and armour lists add much-needed flavor to the game. I, for one, would find a game with such a bland list of equipment as you propose dull and disappointing in the extreme.

Please don't take away my cool toys...

 

[ExploderWizard]

There are couple issues that will crop up that need to be considered:

1) STR bonus for damage. A high damage bonus will make fighting with light weapons superior. Perhaps if STR bonus maxed out at the various size catagories then the slower heavier weapons would need to be used to take full advantage of strength.

2) Bonus bloat. The idea of lighter weapons doing less damage but possibly granting more attacks I like. The bonus structure implied though, seems like the bloated attack bonuses of 3E/4E. If +15 to hit is a commonplace bonus for a d20 die roll then I'm starting to lose interest.

 

[Pickles JG]

4e has it about right with enough numberical variation & keywords giving variation beyond the numbers. I hate patently imbalanced lists like 5e had in the first playtest too, so I would not object to losing all mechanical differences, after all it is really easy to fluff them.

I did convert all of the 1e pole arms to 4e for a laugh & it worked well with varied characteristics that were pretty much balanced. Of course noone used any of them...

The OP both misses out d6s, makes the whole thing a bit fiddly & does not IMO give enough benefit to 2 handers. It also assumes 3e iterative attacks which I am sure have gone the way of the Dodo. Arcanis does something like this with weapon speeds & damage dice but it struggles to balance the damage dealt by weapons that attacks twice as fast - they benefit twice as much from any buffs so if they start out balanced they get too good & vice versa.

 

[The Human Target]

I 100% agree with your idea, just not the execution.

 

[Stormonu]

Looking back at the 81 B/X set, I was suprised to see how spartan the armor/weapon list was.

For armor it was basically Light (leather AC 7), Medium (chain mail AC 5) and Heavy (plate mail AC 3). Throwing in a shield with each type filled in the number gaps.

Weapons were similar - light one-handed (dagger d4), one-handed (club, short sword d6), heavy one-handed (long sword, mace, battleaxe d8), two-handed (two-handed sword, d10) and reach/heavy two-handed (polearm). There was an inferred bludgeon/slashing/piercing division, but I don't remember it really cropping up mechanically.

I think the proposed system would work, but will probably be too light. I think they'll have to have some named weapons and have the OP's system either for the skeleton or as a proposed "simplified" system (starting the armor/weapon dial in the middle with options for less or more detail).

Or we could just go back to OD&D's all weapons doing d6, and everyone wielding an iron spike.

 

[Greensnakedrex]

I understand the concern that removing a large weapons and armor list would reduce flavor provided by the PHB, but I see the list as a limiting factor. The plan is to provide balance so that there is a good reason to use any type of weapon. I do not want to take away anyone's cool toys, I want to give you what ever toy you can dream of, and let you use it in a functional manner.

The concept is definitely planned to be the skeletal design. I think adding weapon properties (damage types, reach, defensive, and so forth) is a great way to spice things up.

I like the idea of having a max str damage bonus for the lighter weapons, as mentioned by Exploder Wizard.


Want to use a Eastern European style Kilij? Use heavy weapon stats. Roman Gladius? Light weapon stats. Cestus? Light weapon stats. Ceremonial tooth bladed war club? Heavy weapon stats. Broken manacle chain? Light weapon stats. Bladed shield? Heavy weapon stats. Footman's Morning Star? Medium or Heavy weapon stats, which ever flavor you prefer. Care to spice it up? Add a weapon property that fits- high crit, faster speed rating, larger die damage, whatever your heart desires.

Same goes with armor. Steel reinforced lamellar? Medium armor. Woven hags hair? Light armor. Gorgon Hide riveted to rubber pads? Heavy armor. Add properties if desired and in balance.

My plan is to give the players EXACTLY what they want, and make it work. Sure, the PHB can keep weapon and armor list, let's just remove the limiting factors.

Also, I think the weapon speed mechanic is a great way for determining multiple attacks and balancing the effectivness of lower damage die weapons. Someone attacking with a fencing foil can definitely launch more attacks than someone using a greataxe, but the greataxe packs much more wallop. Perhaps I should propose that weapon speed idea in it's own thread. I'm new to forum posting, but no longer shall I lurk in the shadows. Thanks for responding!

 

[BobTheNob]

I 100% agree with your idea, just not the execution.

Ditto, but only in so far as it falls a bit shy of where I want it to go to.

If there was one thing that I hate its stupidly long weapon lists that contain 99% "why would I bother" options and a 1% short list of feasible options. When that happens, its a waste of page space and missed design potential.

I do stress missed design potential. As many have suggested, you could have weapons (and armor) bring unique mechanics to the game. So we stop trying to differentiate weapons by damage and speed, and try to differentiate on unique features.

So
Scimitars : Good against low armor opponents
Long Spear : Bonus when receiving a charge
Flail : Bonus Disarming, Bonus vs shields

...and so forth.

Make weapons distinct in what they can do, not just a damage roll.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Make weapons distinct in what they can do, not just a damage roll.

I'd love this.

A pick and a shortsword should feel different in play more than once every ten or twenty rolls - the effect in 3E from differentiating them solely on threat range and multiplier.

The choice of weapon should help to dictate preferred tactics, easy prey, and dangerous opponents. "I want to play a character who fights like [X], and that's why he uses weapon [Y]."

-Hyp.

 

[Stormonu]

Make weapons distinct in what they can do, not just a damage roll.

My thinking follows this train as well, but I suggest some caution in going too far in weapon/armor uniqueness. Players will only need to track the special abilities of armor and weapons for their own characters - we're talking between 1 to 3 items here. But DMs will likely be rolling through all sorts of foes with all types of armor and weapondry. It shouldn't be so diverse as to drive a DM insane, or worse, stick to only a handful of weapons/armor.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

One quick thought: you're being awfully generous with the AC bonus from shields - +4 from a large shield is a lot!
Lanefan

Shields in D&D have never been done right. Ther's a reason nearly everyone on the ancient/medieval battlefield used them! +4 for a large shield sounds about right to me. More might even be better/more 'realistic'.