Why do Halflings get damage bonuses?

No it's not. The skill involved in slaying a dragon does not complicate the physical reality of the maximium damage inflicted by a long sword. The equivalent you are arguing for would have the longsword increase it's damage tenfold vs the Dragon. Another absurd notion.

In fact in AD&D, the longsword did increase its damage die versus the dragon (against large creatures in general).

Edit: Not that I condone that particular design, as it tended to hand out advantages and disadvantages to weapon types arbitrarily, and longsword ended up a clear "best" weapon to anyone who could use one. Which may or may not be true, but it did make for many boring fighter clones.
 
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It's an abstract game. Armor class, hit points, character classes and more are all incredibly abstract concepts. You're either fine with this for the sake of playability, or you need to throw out so much that you're better off with Runequest or a similarly detailed system instead. (Then you can be unhappy about player character ducks, instead.)
 

What's even better is when common understandings of things change over time, so what once seemed like a very "realistic" rule now seems absurd.

The idea that a longsword is a more dangerous weapon simply because it's longer is just one example of this...

Yep, the Romans made fun of Gaulish long swords, because they caused long slashing but superficial wounds, as it bounced off roman shields and chain. The Roman Gladius is a short, light, thrusting weapon good for punching through (or poking under) chain and right into the Gaulish torso.

I can say this over and over again. A weapon is a tool, and the reason people use different weapons is because they are more useful in different situations. They don't do more or less damage, they either give you an advantage and work, or they don't.

For example, you know why everyone didn't use longbows like the English? Because at 25 degrees celcius, the wood has more give to it than the sinew string, and the performance drops drastically. Not such a good weapon to use in the Mediterranean summer. How many D&D players know this? Almost none.

You guys want to talk verisimilitude and realism in terms of D&D? You have no idea how deep that rabbit hole goes.
 

Because it isn't indefensible that's why.
An assertion isn't an argument.

It isn't an entire race, it is the members of the adventuring class of that race, who spend a good deal of their time killing and pillaging... you know for goodness (but mostly for XP).
Which is again, not stated in the playtest document anywhere. Beyond this, where does it say that adventuring halflings will be taken aside for 'racial weapon training'? How on earth would that work - are adventuring halflings segregated from their own population at an early age, in order for them to be trained up? How do they know which ones will choose to go adventuring? Silly argument.

A slight bonus regardless of class. But a halfling wizard is still going to not be as good with a dagger as a fighter or rogue, so there you have the variance in ability.
Which misses the point. How would a Halfling Wizard become more proficient at causing damage with a dagger than a Human Wizard?

As for a halfling being better at using daggers generally than a human wizard, no it doesn't bother me. In medieval societies having the entire adult male population being trained in the use of a particular weapon was not uncommon. At its most extreme it was mandatory. In 1252 for example the 'Assize of Arms' ensured that all Englishmen were ordered, by law, that every man between the age of 15 to 60 years old should equip themselves with a bow and arrows. The Plantagenet King Edward III took this further and decreed the Archery Law in 1363 which commanded the obligatory practice of archery on Sundays and holidays.
A) Englishmen were conscripted to provide the means to serve the King in times of war. They weren't trained in anything, and essentially were easy kills in any armies that were raised. They weren't a warrior class.
B) An English King's edict isn't the same as a Racial Weapon Training anycase.
3) None of this pertains to what is described as a "Peaceful" Race of Halflings.

We've explained over and over why it isn't unreasonable, and why it hasn't been unreasonable since halflings first showed up in the game to have a bonus to attack and/or damage with their favoured weapons.
No you haven't. You've provided reactions to my comments and weak arguments that don't ring true.

Heck, even Tolkien mentions in his prologue to the Lord of the Rings concerning hobbits, that hobbits are adept with slings and throwing stones, which is where this whole bonus comes from. The grand old professor understood that a particular people or region can have a martial culture based around a particular weapon.
Earlier in the thread it was being argued that D&D Halflings weren't the same as Tolkien Hobbits. Now that has come full circle. The bonus doesn't come from Tolkien, and in the case of Short Swords and Daggers it is patently obvious that none of the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings have had any formal training in warfare or weapon use.
 

In fact in AD&D, the longsword did increase its damage die versus the dragon (against large creatures in general).

Edit: Not that I condone that particular design, as it tended to hand out advantages and disadvantages to weapon types arbitrarily, and longsword ended up a clear "best" weapon to anyone who could use one. Which may or may not be true, but it did make for many boring fighter clones.

Quite. And now we have boring Dwarf, Elf and Halfling clones because they are all stuck with "Racial Training' in specified weapons. This was my point before with the notion of wanting to play a rapier weilding Dwarf. The rules make it a disadvantage for Dwarves to fight with anything other than axes and hammers.

And I was aware of previous rules that had seperate damage for large and small creatures. It was illogical and clunky in it's application, so it was removed. Why include another daft rule of the same ilk?
 
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It's an abstract game. Armor class, hit points, character classes and more are all incredibly abstract concepts. You're either fine with this for the sake of playability, or you need to throw out so much that you're better off with Runequest or a similarly detailed system instead. (Then you can be unhappy about player character ducks, instead.)

So, in short: Go and play RuneQuest instead. Again, this is essentially an ad hominem and it fails to address my points. The abstract nature of D&D is clearly being compromised when they include rules like this - I'm arguing that they shouldn't.
 

Yep, the Romans made fun of Gaulish long swords, because they caused long slashing but superficial wounds, as it bounced off roman shields and chain. The Roman Gladius is a short, light, thrusting weapon good for punching through (or poking under) chain and right into the Gaulish torso.

I can say this over and over again. A weapon is a tool, and the reason people use different weapons is because they are more useful in different situations. They don't do more or less damage, they either give you an advantage and work, or they don't.

For example, you know why everyone didn't use longbows like the English? Because at 25 degrees celcius, the wood has more give to it than the sinew string, and the performance drops drastically. Not such a good weapon to use in the Mediterranean summer. How many D&D players know this? Almost none.

You guys want to talk verisimilitude and realism in terms of D&D? You have no idea how deep that rabbit hole goes.

It goes as deep as people want it - and removing one rule introduced in a playtest document because it doesn't make sense is hardly going that deep.

Moreover, the rules as they stand has differential combat damage for different weapons. If you don't like that, then by all means argue against it. But it still doesn't justify adding an arbitrary rule that has an entire race of diminuitive people apparently being trained to cause more damage with a weapon simply because they are....er... too small to use anything bigger.

Heck, if you don't like the idea of halflings being disadvantaged for being small (even though that is patently what a player is chosing to play when they choose a Halfling character), then why have a rule preventing Halflings using bigger weapons anyway? If a Halfling has 16 Strength, then why wouldn't he be able to lift a long sword and swing it? It may look odd, but I'd rather have this than simply escalating arbitrary rules that make no sense.
 

An assertion isn't an argument.

It isn't just contradiction either.

Which is again, not stated in the playtest document anywhere. Beyond this, where does it say that adventuring halflings will be taken aside for 'racial weapon training'? How on earth would that work - are adventuring halflings segregated from their own population at an early age, in order for them to be trained up? How do they know which ones will choose to go adventuring? Silly argument.

Home is sometimes the place for adventures, such as when Goblins attack. I would assume that most halflings are taught the arts of self defense in their own martial tradition, just like it was common for people of all medieval societies to learn self defense and fighting techniques. Just because we've largely forgotten our western martial arts traditions, doesn't mean they didn't exist.

Plus, you are acting like if I say "the late medieval swiss were effective on the battlefield through their mastery of infantry tactics using pikes and halberds, you are acting like I'm saying every 80 year old matronly goatherd was a master of the awl pike. Saying that the English were known for their skill with longbow, the swiss were known for their skill with the pike, the French for their heavy calvary, the Genoese for their crossbowmen etc. is no more or less absurd than saying that halflings are known for their skill with slings and daggers.

Which misses the point. How would a Halfling Wizard become more proficient at causing damage with a dagger than a Human Wizard?

Because an adventuring halfling wizard has training in halfling maritial arts related to daggers and slings.

A) Englishmen were conscripted to provide the means to serve the King in times of war. They weren't trained in anything, and essentially were easy kills in any armies that were raised. They weren't a warrior class.

I'll let the knights at Agincourt and Crecy know, I'm sure they'll agree.

Those who fought were indeed the elite warrior class that often won battles. But everyone fought just like everyone prayed, even if they weren't professionals at it.

3) None of this pertains to what is described as a "Peaceful" Race of Halflings.

Why not? How do you think peace is gained in a world like dungeons and dragons? By sprinkling posies around and asking pretty please don't trample my crops? Every race in the D&D universe has stats because every race fights.

No you haven't. You've provided reactions to my comments and weak arguments that don't ring true.

Whereas you're simply being obstinate in the face far greater opposition. That might be a clue that you're being unreasonable.

Earlier in the thread it was being argued that D&D Halflings weren't the same as Tolkien Hobbits.

So they didn't know their Tolkien very well, but the traditional D&D bonus that halflings get to slings and thrown weapons does indeed come from Tolkien.

Now that has come full circle. The bonus doesn't come from Tolkien, and in the case of Short Swords and Daggers it is patently obvious that none of the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings have had any formal training in warfare or weapon use.

Well, except for the archers sent to aid the king of Arnor (perhaps you want shortbows instead of daggers?). Also Bullroarer Took. And half a dozen other examples in the Shire's past if you read the appendix. Sure, the Shire largely forgot their martial traditions because they were in a prolonged period of peace, but they rediscovered them in a hurry when they had to oust the socialist Sharkey.

Listen, you want racial abilities to respresent nothing but biological things. Whether they have darkvision, how heavy they are etc. But a lot of us want cultural touches to racial abilities as well. Dwarves being able to detect stonework is not a biological thing, as presumably they are taught this. High Elves knowing spells regardless of their class, Wood Elves knowing how to get along in the woods, and so forth are all taught rather than innate. They are no more or less absurd than a halfling tradition of fighting with slings and daggers.
 

It goes as deep as people want it - and removing one rule introduced in a playtest document because it doesn't make sense is hardly going that deep.

Yes, but you are fixated on a particular rule (which makes sense for a great number of people) as not making good enough sense for you.

If you really want rules that don't make sense or aren't realistic, you have to pretty much throw out the whole damn thing. D&D is one huge pile of nonsense, and you saying that increased halfling damage makes less sense than the D&D rules generally is in a word, SILLY.
 

In DDN, and in each edition since 1.5 (when weapon specialization was added), a fighter has been able to increase the damage of longsword through skill alone.

Getting to add +2 or +3 damage due to skill is similar, mechanically, to increasing the damage die 2 or 3 places.

So a skilled halfling user is getting the equivalent of a "weapon specialization" feat, but only for damage.
 

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