[Playtest 2] Weapons and Armor

[JoeCrow]

Where is Lammelar armour, and the Linothorax?

Also, if you're going to pendantic about armour, why are you continuing to undervalue the shield?

Well, for simplicity's sake, I decided to pretend that folks who wanted to wear lamellar armor could bloody well wear scale armor and just CALL it lamellar. They seem equivalent enough in design and utility that trying to differentiate them in the armor table would be pointless.

As for the shield thing, I just went with the existing stats. Otherwise, I'da started getting into working up a system for using shields as bonuses to Parry rolls, and from there it's only a small step to VP/WP systems and who knows what kind of twisted perversions of nature.

 

[JoeCrow]

Ah; I've never heard it called that, though I've I know the term, laminae. I just always called that a lorica segmentata. Hoist on my own armor nerd pretensions. Well played sir!

TBH, I prefer to lump laminar and plate armor together.

I thought about calling it lorica segmentata, but that woulda made the armor name column too wide. As for lumping laminar and plate together, I think there's enough structural difference between your Roman segmentata and your late Medieval/early Renaissance plate harness to justify 2 different armor entries. YMMV, of course.

 

[Ferrous]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for working on this. I prefer historically accurate naming conventions to fantasy armour, but that could because I am a re-enactor and own a couple of suits of armour!

However I do think that armour as written favours light armour. I know that you guys are just echoing the rules as written already but I don't think that they model either reality or the fact that in game you are paying an extra 1 or 2 proficiency slots to be effectively worse off?

For example a chain shirt at 150gp gives you an AC of 19 with a 20 Dex, whilst plate armour at 1500 gp gives you an AC of 18 and -5 feet to movement and disadvantage to stealth checks, and takes longer to put on and off and 2 extra proficiencies. Also a chain shirt can be concealed to attend the palace ball but Plate armour may be considered inappropriate.

To be frank Heavy armour should at the least also impose disadvantage on climb and swim checks!

Now I understand that not every character will have a 20 dexterity but if you are human then you have about a 36% of being able to if you choose at level 1 and 76% by the first stat boost. And this is in many ways the best option as you pay about 1 point in average damage by using a finesse weapon, but gain on Reflex defense and bonus to initiative, and bonus to missile fire.

I totally understand the thinking behind making shields better as well. Shields are awesome. But I think that is already by the Guardian speciality?

I think that I would be happiest with something like:

Light armour base 11 + Dex
Medium armour base 12 + Dex
Heavy armour base 15 + 1/2 Dex (penalty or bonus) -5 feet movement disadvantage to Dex checks.

Original D&D gave you full Dex bonus in Plate,

 

[Chronikoce]

I think that I would be happiest with something like:

Light armour base 11 + Dex
Medium armour base 12 + Dex
Heavy armour base 15 + 1/2 Dex (penalty or bonus) -5 feet movement disadvantage to Dex checks.

Original D&D gave you full Dex bonus in Plate,

I'd rather see them boost Heavy Armor AC and leave the Dex mod completely off as they have in the current build. You shouldn't be doing much (if any) dodging in Full plate because it would tire you out to quickly and get you killed. Instead you would rely on the protection the plate offers and your ability to block or parry.

 

[ferratus]

Well, for simplicity's sake, I decided to pretend that folks who wanted to wear lamellar armor could bloody well wear scale armor and just CALL it lamellar. They seem equivalent enough in design and utility that trying to differentiate them in the armor table would be pointless.

Fair enough! But by the same logic, laminar armour might as well be called banded armour no?

As for the shield thing, I just went with the existing stats. Otherwise, I'da started getting into working up a system for using shields as bonuses to Parry rolls, and from there it's only a small step to VP/WP systems and who knows what kind of twisted perversions of nature.

I don't know, I mean armour is essentially just a shield you wear. Leather armour is a leather shield, mail armour is essentially a thin steel shield. A shield is essentially wooden armour, so it should grant similar protection that you would imagine wooden armour should grant. The only reason that people didn't make armour out of wood (very often) was because it wasn't flexible enough and couldn't be shaped into body fitting plates.

 

[Ferrous]

Boosting Heavy armour is certainly an option.

However a well fitted suit of plate is no where near as encumbering as many people believe. Indeed it was a point of pride for a knight to be able to vaunt on to his horse. In fact a suit of Plate weighs about as much as a modern infrantry man carries, and is better distributed. There are accounts of medieval acrobats performing tumbles and hand stands etc. in Plate armour as entertainment at tourneys.

 

[JoeCrow]

Fair enough! But by the same logic, laminar armour might as well be called banded armour no?

Bah! Logic is for vulcans! This is arbitrary re-naming of armor types for personal amusement and geekish point-scoring, dangit!

I don't know, I mean armour is essentially just a shield you wear. Leather armour is a leather shield, mail armour is essentially a thin steel shield. A shield is essentially wooden armour, so it should grant similar protection that you would imagine wooden armour should grant. The only reason that people didn't make armour out of wood (very often) was because it wasn't flexible enough and couldn't be shaped into body fitting plates.

True enough. But the basic system works well enough for my purposes that I didn't feel the need to substantially alter the shield stats.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Chain shirt is still a horrific monstrosity that should not exist except as a rare magical special item. Ditch it. The ceiling for light armor should be +2!

The value of a thin bit of chain is zero against many kinds of weapons. That is why mail was always, always, always worn over some significant padding and often enhanced with bit of cuir-bouilli or better as well.

The overvaluing of light armor is an egregious error. It forces either heavy armor to be uncomfortably high in a flat world, or to be outright undervalued. Ditto for shields.