Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk

[freyar]

OK, here's what we have for the silkie:

Magic Sealskin (Su): All silkies possess an enchanted sealskin which allows them to assume seal form (see Alternate Form, above). Should another creature steal this skin, a silkie is unable to attack them unless the skin's thief attacks the silkie first (as per the affect of the sanctuary spell). Furthermore, the silkie has a -4 penalty to resist all Charisma-based skills and saves against enchantment spells performed by the skin-thief.

I think we can safely drop the sanctuary part. We also have

The dark sorcery that allows the loup du noir to assume its bestial form also protects it from many forms of attack. The werewolf is immune to all charm and hold effects, and receives a +4 bonus to saving throws against any other mind-affecting spell. It suffers damage from silver weapons or weapons that have had a bless spell cast upon them, but wounds from normal weapons heal too quickly to cause any damage. Magical weapons can harm the loup du noir, but unless they are made of silver or have had a bless spell cast upon them, the enchanted weapon only causes half damage.

Does the bless bit sound like DR/silver and good? That might be a bit much. I could go with DR/silver or good or DR/silver and magic or something similar. It does sound like better DR than a standard lycanthrope (though I confess not to knowing the DR on normal lycanthropes back then). Also, immunity to charming and compulsions plus a resistance bonus vs all mind-affecting? Or just immunity to mind-affecting in wolf form?

 

[Cleon]

OK, here's what we have for the silkie:


I think we can safely drop the sanctuary part. We also have

Does the bless bit sound like DR/silver and good? That might be a bit much. I could go with DR/silver or good or DR/silver and magic or something similar. It does sound like better DR than a standard lycanthrope (though I confess not to knowing the DR on normal lycanthropes back then). Also, immunity to charming and compulsions plus a resistance bonus vs all mind-affecting? Or just immunity to mind-affecting in wolf form?

DR vs silver and good seems the best solution.

As for the mind-affecting powers, I prefer the partial immunity plus a save bonus solution, since it's the truest to the original monster.

 

[freyar]

Since we're going with silver and good, we should probably limit it to DR 5. I think it could be a lot less likely PCs will figure out the weapons need to be aligned. Only applies in wolf form, agreed?

Immunity to charms and compulsions and +4 vs mind-affecting in wolf form?

That is, I'm proposing this:

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 5/silver and good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

 

[Cleon]

Since we're going with silver and good, we should probably limit it to DR 5. I think it could be a lot less likely PCs will figure out the weapons need to be aligned. Only applies in wolf form, agreed?

Dang it, I meant to say silver OR good.

I'd rather it be 10 points of DR, like a standard true lycanthrope, and it should only apply to the dire wolf form.

Immunity to charms and compulsions and +4 vs mind-affecting in wolf form?

Works for me.

Hmm, it seems a bit odd restricting its charm-resistance to its lupine form, but that's what the original text seems to say.

That is, I'm proposing this:

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 5/silver and good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

I'd change it to DR 10/silver or good, but that fine by me.

I'd then add something about how it can acquire/replace its wolfskin if its own is stolen or destroyed. I'd suggest it has to kill a Large-sized canine in single combat and then skin it (and note that it can just murder another Loup du Noir and take its skin).

 

[freyar]

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires a ritual killing of a Medium (LARGE?) or larger canine in single combat and skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can steal another loup du noir's skin, usually killing the victim.

Another human(?) in possession of a loup du noir's wolfskin can become a loup du noir through a profane ritual involving that wolfskin.


What do you think about the red text?

 

[Cleon]

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires a ritual killing of a Medium (LARGE?) or larger canine in single combat and skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can steal another loup du noir's skin, usually killing the victim.

Another human(?) in possession of a loup du noir's wolfskin can become a loup du noir through a profane ritual involving that wolfskin.


What do you think about the red text?

I'd make it a Large-sized canine.

I wouldn't mind some mechanic for the "Profane Ritual". Maybe a skill check of some sort - Knowledge (arcana)? Use Magic Device? Survival?

Something like so...

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires the ritual killing of a canine of at least Large size in single combat, followed by skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can steal another loup du noir's wolfskin, usually killing the victim.

A human in possession of a loup du noir's magic wolfskin can become a loup du noir by performing a profane ceremony with that wolfskin. This requires a successful DC 25 [?] check against Knowledge (arcana), Survival, or Use Magic Device [?].

 

[Cleon]

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires the ritual killing of a canine of at least Large size in single combat, followed by skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can steal another loup du noir's wolfskin, usually killing the victim.

A human in possession of a loup du noir's magic wolfskin can become a loup du noir by performing a profane ceremony with that wolfskin. This requires a successful DC 25 [?] check against Knowledge (arcana), Survival, or Use Magic Device [?].

Come to think of it, I fancied making a Magic Wolfskin a "one person at a time" deal, so another human can not use it while the original owner is alive.

So:

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires the ritual killing of a canine of at least Large size in single combat, followed by skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can murder another loup du noir and steal their wolfskin.

If a loup do noir dies, a human in possession of its magic wolfskin can become a loup du noir by performing a profane ceremony with the skin. This requires a successful DC 25 [?] check against Knowledge (arcana), Survival, or Use Magic Device [?].

 

[freyar]

Come to think of it, I fancied making a Magic Wolfskin a "one person at a time" deal, so another human can not use it while the original owner is alive.

So:

Magic Wolfskin (Su): All loups du noir possess an enchanted wolfskin which allows them to assume wolf form (see Alternate Form, above). While in wolf form, the wolfskin grants the loup du noir DR 10/silver or good, immunity to charms and compulsions, and a +4 resistance bonus on saves vs mind-affecting affects.

If a loup du noir loses its magic wolfskin, it cannot take wolf form until it replaces the wolfskin. This requires the ritual killing of a canine of at least Large size in single combat, followed by skinning the victim. Alternately, the skinless loup du noir can murder another loup du noir and steal their wolfskin.

If a loup do noir dies, a human in possession of its magic wolfskin can become a loup du noir by performing a profane ceremony with the skin. This requires a successful DC 25 [?] check against Knowledge (arcana), Survival, or Use Magic Device [?].

Looking at this ability makes me think we should perhaps not allow giants to become loups du noir. The original text makes it sound limited to humanoids or maybe even just humans anyway.

I like the new version of the wolfskin you propose here, but I'm not sure about the DC of that skill check. Since Know and UMD are both trained only, you're more or less putting a skill rank prereq on the template. I see where you get the idea, but I'm not sure how I'd like to implement it.

 

[Cleon]

Looking at this ability makes me think we should perhaps not allow giants to become loups du noir. The original text makes it sound limited to humanoids or maybe even just humans anyway.

I thought the template already was humanoid-only.

Come to think of it, what happens if it's an Aquatic humanoid? Does it result in a "Seawolf"?

I like the new version of the wolfskin you propose here, but I'm not sure about the DC of that skill check. Since Know and UMD are both trained only, you're more or less putting a skill rank prereq on the template. I see where you get the idea, but I'm not sure how I'd like to implement it.

The trained-only limitation to Knowledge and Use Magic Device is why I added Survival to the skill possibilities.

Hmm, you know Handle Animal makes a twisted kind of sense, too...

Handle Animal, Knowledge (arcane), Survival, or Use Magic Device?

 

[freyar]

The working draft says "any humanoid or giant of Medium or Large size."

A seawolf is a cool idea.

The thing is, you're not going to make an untrained DC 25 skill check unless you have a 20+ Wis or Cha and roll very well. Or have a bunch of nutsos helping you turn into a magical homicidal maniac with Aid Another actions. I can go along with the skill checks, but I think we should reduce the DC to the 15 to 20 range somewhere. Or allow an even wider variety of skills. Or both.