D&D 5E You can't necessarily go back

[Bedrockgames]

I cant really speak on the other things like exception based design, but I don't see how modular design (unless I misunderstand the term) was borrowed from computer science. Even if it did exist in computer science that doesn't mean it was brought form that discipline into rpgs. Modular approaches to design have been around in rpgs for quite some time now.

 

[triqui]

Totally not needed to play pen & paper games on the tabletop.

Not needed to play, but a great advance to design one. Actually, almost any game design (and some non games) borrow from that. 3e took a few good advices from it.

 

[triqui]

Personal experience lets me know that Ford engines are subpar. Likewise with Pathfinder.

Fine, because my own personal experience tells me you are wrong in both.

 

[B.T.]

Fine, because my own personal experience tells me you are wrong in both.

Prone Shooter is a feat that does nothing. Paizo has published material that is worse than nothing, because nothing wouldn't take up a feat slot.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Prone Shooter is a feat that does nothing. Paizo has published material that is worse than nothing, because nothing wouldn't take up a feat slot.

Every game has little "Murphy's Rules" like that.

 

[Lanefan]

Pathfinder's success largely comes from ... a fat art budget.

For 5e's sake I hope WotC looks at this and learns.

They figured it out for Magic cards, they can figure it out for D&D: art sells.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

... one place that P&PRPGs could take some inspiration from CRPGs is boss encounter design. Some already do. I'd like to see some cool, well thought out boss encounters released as part of a monster manual, encounters that could be slotted into any Underdark, or Abyss, or Farplane adventure that really show off a unique and terrifying bad guy. With cool mechanics like terrain puzzles integrated into the fights, charged attacks that broadcast when they are about to go off, transformations, and all the other tropes that adorn all of our favorite climactic video game fights.

I know that such things aren't for everyone, but you could always choose not to use them, right? And I think a lot of people would get good use out of them, even just as inspiration!

I might well be one of those people, though I might not use quite all those options. .

Doesn't have to be just the "boss" fights, though; the same idea could be applied to any fight where you know going in that it has to be a set piece e.g. the monster is trapped where it is and can only function once the PCs release it and the PCs can only release it in a particular way.

Problem is, adventure designers will insist on applying these ideas to fights that aren't necessarily set pieces; those where both the PCs and enemy's actions can easily dictate a much different encounter each time it gets played, but the adventure author assumes the PCs will always do x and the monsters will always do y. (most of the 4e adventures I've read and-or run are bad for this; some 1e ones are also)

But yes, an encounters book like you suggest would be useful for inspiration, if nothing else.

Lanefan

 

[slobster]

I might well be one of those people, though I might not use quite all those options. .

Doesn't have to be just the "boss" fights, though; the same idea could be applied to any fight where you know going in that it has to be a set piece e.g. the monster is trapped where it is and can only function once the PCs release it and the PCs can only release it in a particular way.

Problem is, adventure designers will insist on applying these ideas to fights that aren't necessarily set pieces; those where both the PCs and enemy's actions can easily dictate a much different encounter each time it gets played, but the adventure author assumes the PCs will always do x and the monsters will always do y. (most of the 4e adventures I've read and-or run are bad for this; some 1e ones are also)

But yes, an encounters book like you suggest would be useful for inspiration, if nothing else.

Lanefan

Agreed on all counts. I call them "boss fights" as useful shorthand, but I agree that the philosophy applies to any suitable set-piece encounter. It is best used in moderation in any case, and I hope that they use that philosophy in module design.

Then again, I don't really run modules. I hope they remember that there is a place for simple, fast-paced encounters, and that not every fight need be huge and challenging and complex. But if they don't remember that, it won't affect me much!

 

[Nagol]

For 5e's sake I hope WotC looks at this and learns.

They figured it out for Magic cards, they can figure it out for D&D: art sells.

Lanefan

Yeah, no.

WotC tried that when they published their very own RPG (before buying Ars Magica and D&D) -- Everway.

Gorgeous book. Lots of full-colour art.

Didn't sell particularly well (and possibly cost more than the MSRP).

 

[Hussar]

Totally not needed to play pen & paper games on the tabletop.

True, it's not needed. But, I think most people would consider it a heck of an improvement.