Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

[Cleon]

I'm getting it from the SRD:

There's no exception listed. I think, since Draconomicon was being written during the cross-over from 3.0 to 3.5, they just missed this. There are plenty of errors in D&D books.

If the template doesn't specify whether that you add the augmented subtype I'd be reluctant to assume Dracoliches have it. I checked a few 3E Dracoliches (e.g. Aurgloroasa in Dragon #344, Dragotha in Dungeon #134) and none of them had "augmented dragon" in their stats.

Then again, I very rarely see the augmented subtype in monster writeups, even creatures where the template specifies they should have it (like SRD Vampires) often forget to include it in their stats.

Anyhow, I don't think it's worth fussing about so long as we're clear whether they can have Enslaved Undead Dragons or not.

I'm willing to leave out anything about PCs. Anyway, how about this?

Org: Solitary, hunt (1-4 plus 2d10 skeletal warriors), or X (1-4 plus 4d10 skeleton warriors and 1 dracolich)
as well as a description of your enslaved dracoliches in the background text.

That seems rather a lot of skeleton warriors. They are pretty potent undead in their own right, remember - 10th-15th level "undead lords" in the 1E Fiend Folio, 10th+ level fighters in the Enworld conversion.

Hmm...

The Human, Dragon Slayer writeup in MCA2 has a #Appearing of 2-12. How about we use that total?

Organisation: Solitary, hunt (2-4), company (1-4 plus 1-8 skeletal warriors), or flight (1-4 plus 1 dracolich)

If they've got a dracolich, maybe that's to make them an airborne unit?

They might use other undead dragons if a dracolich is unavailable, like the young adult red dragon skeleton or zombie wyvern in the SRD.

Organisation: Solitary, hunt (2-4), company (1-4 plus 1-8 skeletal warriors), flight (1-4 plus 1 dracolich) or squadron (2-4 plus 1 dracolich and 2-12 skeletal warriors and 1-6 young adult red dragon skeletons or zombie wyverns)

 

[freyar]

Sure, that will work. But let's remember that the CC entry is "skeleton warriors" as opposed to "skeletal warriors."

 

[Cleon]

Sure, that will work. But let's remember that the CC entry is "skeleton warriors" as opposed to "skeletal warriors."

So care to update the Undead Dragon Slayer Working Draft with the skeletal changes?

 

[freyar]

Oh, right, forgot I was in charge of this one. Updated.

What do you think of the description and flavor? The red text is copy-pasted from the original monster, so we'll need to change that up a bit.

Looking back at the original, we seem to have covered all the special attacks (and then some), but we missed this:

Breath Stun: Aimed at the gullet, this attack (at a -4 penalty) disables the breath weapon. Besides the damage, the breath weapon is disabled for 1 round per point of damage inflicted.

I think we could do one like this based on the Bind Wings attack we wrote. What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

Oh, right, forgot I was in charge of this one. Updated.

What do you think of the description and flavor? The red text is copy-pasted from the original monster, so we'll need to change that up a bit.

Yes, we could tighten it up a bit and add some stuff explaining their association with skeleton warriors and dracoliches.

Looking back at the original, we seem to have covered all the special attacks (and then some), but we missed this:

I think we could do one like this based on the Bind Wings attack we wrote. What do you think?

Yup, we'd better do something with that.

Do we want an improved version of it too?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, we could tighten it up a bit and add some stuff explaining their association with skeleton warriors and dracoliches.

I'm not feeling inspired for a redraft of the background text at the moment. Maybe tomorrow!

Yup, we'd better do something with that.

Do we want an improved version of it too?

Okey-Dokey, how about this?:

Stifle Breath (Su): Once per day, an undead dragon slayer may spend a full attack action to make a single attack with the ability to disable a dragon's breath weapon. If this attack hits a creature with the dragon subtype, it prevents the dragon using any breath weapon it has for 1d6 rounds. The effects of stifle breath can be cancelled by any power that removes a stun effect, such as the heal spell. A breath-stifled dragon may also cancel the effect with a successful Autohypnosis check (DC equals 10 + undead dragon slayer's HD + undead dragon slayer's Cha modifier).​

I renamed it from "Breath Stun" or "Stun Breath" since that sounded suspiciously like a breath weapon that caused stunning, rather than an attack than "stuns" breath weapons.

There's no "Improved Bind Wings" in the Undead Dragon Slayer Working Draft. so I guess we're not needing an "Improved Stifle Breath". I thought about calling it "Paralyze Breath" but that would imply a remove paralysis would cure it, which seemed to easy.

 

[freyar]

I'd agree that we shouldn't have an improved version of it. In any case, I like what you've got except for the Autohypnosis. These aren't psionic critters, so it's a bit weird to pull that in, and there's nothing in the original ability that suggests dragons should be able to "think themselves out of it." And Autohypnosis can't undo physical things usually anyway. I suppose you put it in as a parallel to Escape Artist in Bind Wings? If you need a skill check, what about Heal?

 

[Cleon]

I'd agree that we shouldn't have an improved version of it. In any case, I like what you've got except for the Autohypnosis. These aren't psionic critters, so it's a bit weird to pull that in, and there's nothing in the original ability that suggests dragons should be able to "think themselves out of it." And Autohypnosis can't undo physical things usually anyway. I suppose you put it in as a parallel to Escape Artist in Bind Wings? If you need a skill check, what about Heal?

Yeah, I was looking for a substitute skill and Autohypnosis seems the closest to a "breath control" skill in the SRD. I don't think of Autohypnosis as being a "psionic skill" since it has no application to psionic powers (well, except for the synergy bonus on Knowledge (psionic) checks - which makes little sense to me!). It may appear in the Psionic Powers Book, but so do a bunch of other non-psionic stuff like a bunch of General Feats. There's nothing very psionic about Sidestep Charge, after all.

Heal would be my next pick, using a standard actions like a "treat wounds" check.

 

[freyar]

It is funny that we're more likely to use a feat from the psionic section more than Autohypnosis. But in this case, I don't feel like the dragon should be able to get rid of this effect mentally.

I'd actually be willing to drop the skill check, given that the dragon might be able to get healed more easily than dispelling the wall of force. Not sure. Any thoughts about that?

 

[Cleon]

It is funny that we're more likely to use a feat from the psionic section more than Autohypnosis. But in this case, I don't feel like the dragon should be able to get rid of this effect mentally.

I'd actually be willing to drop the skill check, given that the dragon might be able to get healed more easily than dispelling the wall of force. Not sure. Any thoughts about that?

Well the flavour suggests it's some kind of physical damage - the Slayer just hits the dragon at a precise spot and the damage disables its breath weapon. That suggests we could drop the skill check to neutralize it if we want.

Should we allow effects that remove a stun condition, such as the heal spell, remove the Stifle Breath?