Pathfinder 1E Rogue with ranged weapon and standing from prone

[brunswick]

Hello folks,

A player in my game is playing a rogue. At his level, he is entitled to several missile attacks and one of his tactics, if circumstances allow, is to (from cover) stand up from prone (a free action for his rogue), fire his arrows, then drop "prone" again (also a free action).

We are having a debate, about this, amongst our group and some (including me) are curious if this tactic is actually "legal". Standing up from cover is normally a move-action, whereas if the rogue intends to fire off all of his arrows (a full round attack), he can only take a 5' step as his movement.

The player of the rogue states (correctly) that standing up from prone is a free action for his rogue (special ability) and dropping to prone is also a free action so he isnt, therefore, violating the "5' step only" rule.

I suppose my point is that even though the stand up from prone is a free-action for a rogue, would it count as "movement" during the full attack action?

 

[knottyprof]

My understanding is that "free" actions are not limited to once a round (upon DM discretion) so if they are really a free action then I supposed he could do both. What special ability gives the rogue the ability to stand up from prone as a free action? Is it a free action or a swift action?
<edit>
Rogue Talent Stand Up. It does indeed say free action. I guess the question is do you consider standing up a movement and then dropping prone a movement? If so then I guess I would limit to one movement action a round unless he had a feat or ability that let him take multiple move actions in a single round. Since both standing and dropping are free actions I could see where it wouldn't impact the full round attack.

 

[RangerWickett]

He's probably not 'standing up' as much as he's entering a sort of battle crouch. Just high enough off the ground to shoot accurately, but able to dive back down to cover the second he thinks he's under threat.

Just litter the battlefield with chest-high-walls a la modern First Person Shooters, and everyone can participate!

 

[knottyprof]

Also, although standing up is a free action on the rogues part, it does provoke attacks of opportunity. Just have a few opponents sneak up or appear behind him when he decides to do the pop up and fire routine.

 

[Razjah]

I wouldn't count it as movement, so the rogue is allowed to make a full attack. I wouldn't even mess with the rogue too much- have some shoot at him (penalty to hit for him being prone) and maybe a few enemies try to close to melee. But the player found a cool interaction for his character. Let him have his fun, soon enough everyone will be flying and invisibility will be common. I am not saying to stop challenging the players and characters, but don't en up punishing him.

 

[N'raac]

Razjah nails it - the Rogue spent his character resources to be a skilled sniper, so let him be a skilled sniper. Don't give a bunch of terrain advantages so the other characters, who spent their resources elsewhere, get to match him. Don't neuter his abilities.

Might enemies try to close on his position, or use area spells to target him? Sure. Will he always have the right combat layout to make sniping easy? Of course not. But let the player get the advantages he paid for with character resources. Seriously, are we complaining that a PATHFINDER ROGUE is overpowered?

 

[brunswick]

Thanks folks. Was leaning towards the players viewpoint anyway a little bit but I'm gonna definitely go with him on this now. Thanks for the common sense.

 

[knottyprof]

Rogues are definitely a threat in Pathfinder if done right. Even if you drop a fireball on your sniper PC, with Evasion he probably won't even get singed. Need to drop a spell on him with a Fort saving throw like Cloudkill.

 

[brunswick]

 

[gamerprinter]

Rogues are definitely a threat in Pathfinder if done right. Even if you drop a fireball on your sniper PC, with Evasion he probably won't even get singed. Need to drop a spell on him with a Fort saving throw like Cloudkill.

Really? Granted a rogue's got Evasion, but "definitely a threat???" Most of what a rogue can do can be performed by most any class. Nobody in our group will even play a rogue - better to be an urban ranger, or someone who as a real AC and chance to hit things. Anybody can take disable device, and half the other classes has trapfinding as an option. Most people agree that a PF rogue is a pretty useless thing. Its better to be a ninja.

Although it's 3PP, the best "sniper" in the game is a Samurai (yabusame archetype) .