Planescape Do You Care About Planescape Lore?

[Quickleaf]

I tend to agree (although the bit about demon lords being deities goes back to the 1st ed AD&D DDG - so I don't think Planescape can be blamed for that).

But I do find it more about setting for its own sake, than play. I have a copy of the much-vaunted Dead Gods, and it strikes me personally as unplayable because of the degree of railroading that would be required; likewise Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, which at least presents itself as being in the Planescape style.

For a contrary view, though, I'll call on [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION], who took me to task a couple of years ago when I first expressed an opinion similar to yours!

Unfortunately, the Planescape adventures weren't very good, and the stand-outs were only average. Then again, that's my opinions of most 2e adventures put out by TSR regardless of setting.

As for the playability of the Planescape setting...it depends on the group. Though I am not convinced Planescape has been forced on the core D&D setting, I *do* agree that it should not be treated as core because it is so strange. The sheer strangeness of the setting may have repelled more people than it attracted.

My personal experience was that is was very playable, though. The whole setting was laced with adventure hooks, "planewalkers" were the equivalent of the "adventurer" sub-culture, there were low threat/high threat zones, and travel could be instantaneous (side quest to get portal key) or require the use of a planar pathway (side quest to traverse the River Styx, Yggdrasil, or Infinite Staircase).

I'd argue for its playability, but definitely not for it universality.

 

[Weather Report]

I think a Wandering Monsters column has discussed the possibility of saying that they actually are a lesser type of Eladrin. The lore already had the idea that Eladrins traveled to the Prime Material Plane, so it isn't hard to imagine a "Least Eladrin" that has become native to the Prime and doesn't need to go in disguise. This seems like a good solution to me, since the Fey Step ability has become so iconic. There's a similar idea for the 4e Deva.

I could handle that.

 

[Weather Report]

Well, within Dark Sun setting material itself, the gith weren't aliens, they were from the Astral plane beyond Athas's crystal sphere (which with slender exception was largely cut off from the outer planes).

Interestingly enough, in the Dark Sun hardcover book Dragon Kings, it states that Athas is in an Alternate Material Plane (no crystal sphere), but shares the Astral and Outer Planes with the Prime (and in Air, Earth, Fire, and Water, it hints it might have different Inner Planes).

 

[zoroaster100]

I disliked the Planescape style and feel, and hated the idea of the Bloodwar. Planescape did make a few contributions to detailing the outer planes, which I think were worthwhile, but those were few and far between. I much preferred the style and feel of the first edition D&D description of the planes (though of course much more good detail has been added in later editions, such as more demon lords, daemons, etc).

 

[avin]

I think a Wandering Monsters column has discussed the possibility of saying that they actually are a lesser type of Eladrin. The lore already had the idea that Eladrins traveled to the Prime Material Plane, so it isn't hard to imagine a "Least Eladrin" that has become native to the Prime and doesn't need to go in disguise. This seems like a good solution to me, since the Fey Step ability has become so iconic. There's a similar idea for the 4e Deva.

Not a bad solution, but I would use High Elves.

Eladrins/High Elves must stay, it's a nice addition to lore and, as you say, Fey Step it's iconic already.

I confess I'm not too familiar with the classic concept of Devas but isn't it somewhat different from 4E? This is other race that should stay in Next, as something else, not Aasimar nor Material Plane Devas (but this is just me, that would like more and more creatures to use)

 

[Weather Report]

I confess I'm not too familiar with the classic concept of Devas but isn't it somewhat different from 4E? This is other race that should stay in Next, as something else, not Aasimar nor Material Plane Devas (but this is just me, that would like more and more creatures to use)

Yes, 4th Devas are nothing to do with Assimar, but they could be a form of least Deva or a spirit race tied to Rakshasas something.

 

[Oryan77]

I hate it when other settings try to push their lore into my Planescape game. I don't care if you love the Tauren from World of Warcraft. I'm not allowing them in my Planescape game, dangit. You Warforged can stay out too.

Luckily I don't feel beholden to any fluff or crunch. I can pick and choose how I want to run my campaign and what source material I want to use (even in my Planescape game). Other people don't do this? So you just use the material you don't like and then complain about it as if WotC has a gun to your head?

This thread has gone on for almost 20 pages and I'm still not seeing what the big deal is. Seems like people just want to bash on the Planescape setting and are using this "it's in everything" excuse as a way to let the world know how much you hate Planescape, it's art, the cant, etc, etc. It's the same old complaints every time. When do you ever see someone mention how much the 1e art sucks? I mean really, 1e art is terrible. But nobody brings up how they hate Greyhawk cause the art looks like Gumby wearing armor. The Planescape cant is nothing more than British slang. You don't even have to use it. And anyone that over-uses it in-game just needs to work on their roleplaying. It just seems like nit-picking to find more to hate about the setting. I've never heard anyone say they hated a movie like Snatch cause of the slang used in the script.

1. So the "PS cosmology" sets a standard in other settings and you don't like that? What about the material annoys you? Why can't you change it yourself in a way that you would like or use a 3rd party source?

2. So simply having material that was not similar to the way PS does it would make you feel better? What if that material was worse? How do you know you would like the different material better? Does being different simply make it better?

3. Let's be honest here, does it really even matter? How much of this sort of material has a big impact on an actual session? I've been playing D&D for 15 years and outside of all of the hacking & slashing, roleplaying, and saving the world, I've never once seen players give a crap about the way the cosmology worked in the game. I've never seen a DM feel restricted & throw up his hands in defeat because he couldn't create session material due to the cosmology he was forced to use.

The closest anyone ever comes is when a Paladin thinks he has to be Lawful Stupid or a Rogue has to be Chaotic Dumb because they have a one-tracked mindset on how an alignment should be played. And I don't blame the system or the setting on that. But as far as alignments of planes and what planes exist and how they relate to the rest of the multiverse? Nope, I've never seen a player care in any campaign and I have never seen such material cause any sort of impact on how the game plays out.

No, this thread seems to exist just to state your hate and act like you have a legit (passive-aggressive) reason to back up your issues. It just seems like a sly way to troll and get a reaction.

 

[JeffB]

I think its time to start passing out the Butt-Hurt forms, Morrus.

 

[Piratecat]

You know, Jeff, it's fine for people to disagree with you. No need to be jerky about it.

 

[Obryn]

Well, within Dark Sun setting material itself, the gith weren't aliens, they were from the Astral plane beyond Athas's crystal sphere (which with slender exception was largely cut off from the outer planes).

...said "slender exception" being violated in numerous published adventures. I can think of Black Spine and City by the Silt Sea for two.

-O