D&D 5E What about warlocks and sorcerers?

[MoonSong]

Since the playtest is almost over (only one packet more), it is very apparent the game is taking shape, official sources claim bard and multiclassing will be featured on it, that warlords are going to be represented as a bard subclass and all other core classes are already there, except for two: warlock and sorcerer.

What happened to them? are they so clearly done the designers consider they need no playtest? has the design team simply forsaken them? have they, as I fear become engulfed by the mage class?

(This really concerns me, because the mage is a poor fit for them, moreover making them "a mage with alternate casting methiod x" clearly puts them into "advanced territory", which plays a big disservice to their players, because that means that a) they aren't likely to be available at release, b) we won't get to see propper subclasses for them, c) it makes creating one a more time consuming process and inherently harder for what traditionally have been the two simplest caster classes and d) everything on the mage class is too heavily made to support the robbed wizard archetype.)

Anybody knows anything about them? Will we ever see them again? the closest piece of information we got was "the class mold we saw for the sorcerer was being reconverted into a gish class but then got scrapped during internal playtesting".

So any news?

 

[the Jester]

Since the playtest is almost over (only one packet more), it is very apparent the game is taking shape, official sources claim bard and multiclassing will be featured on it, that warlords are going to be represented as a bard subclass and all other core classes are already there, except for two: warlock and sorcerer.

What happened to them? are they so clearly done the designers consider they need no playtest? has the design team simply forsaken them? have they, as I fear become engulfed by the mage class?

(This really concerns me, because the mage is a poor fit for them, moreover making them "a mage with alternate casting methiod x" clearly puts them into "advanced territory", which plays a big disservice to their players, because that means that a) they aren't likely to be available at release, b) we won't get to see propper subclasses for them, c) it makes creating one a more time consuming process and inherently harder for what traditionally have been the two simplest caster classes and d) everything on the mage class is too heavily made to support the robbed wizard archetype.)

I suspect that they will be separate arcane traditions under the mage. However, I think your leap from that to your a, b, c and d points is a bit of a stretch.

Sorcerers and warlocks are entirely likely to available at release, as "make anything from any PH1 at release" is a stated goal of the game. I don't know why you think there won't be proper subclasses; if the wizard gets 'em- and it sounds like he is getting around 8- then why wouldn't the other mage types?

Finally, you're assuming an awful lot about what goes under "Mage" vs. what goes under "Wizard". I wouldn't be surprised to see dirt-quick simple sorcerers.

But time will tell; I suspect we'll know more in September, when they push out the final packet.

 

[Li Shenron]

My current guess is that they'll do them only in the first splatbook.

 

[GX.Sigma]

They'll be under Mage, the same way there's "Wizardry" with a bunch of subclasses. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sorceror Origins and Warlock Pacts look exactly like the Wizard Traditions.

As for whether they'll use different casting systems, signs point to yes (by default, anyway).

 

[variant]

I am not sure we will see the Sorcerer and Warlock under the Mage. Mike Mearls had the opportunity to say that at the Q&A, but didn't. He referenced adding new options under the Mage for other settings like the Artificer in Eberron and High Sorcery in Dragonlance.

 

[Falling Icicle]

They'll be under Mage, the same way there's "Wizardry" with a bunch of subclasses. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sorceror Origins and Warlock Pacts look exactly like the Wizard Traditions.

I really, really hope that this will not be the case.

 

[gyor]

I think it all depends on the reaction to the next packet.

 

[variant]

Even if they are under Mage, I think it could work. The Mage can support alternative spellcasting systems including a spell point system and I think I remember Mearls mentioned a at-will casting system which did sound like the Warlock system. We just haven't seen what form these systems will turn out.

 

[TwoSix]

Anybody knows anything about them? Will we ever see them again? the closest piece of information we got was "the class mold we saw for the sorcerer was being reconverted into a gish class but then got scrapped during internal playtesting".
So any news?

Man, I sure hope not. The whole concept of spending spell points to change from a caster to a melee character was awesome, and I'd like to see it come back somewhere, even if it's not embedded in the sorcerer class.

 

[Li Shenron]

We have this problem, that alternate spellcasting mechanics apparently need to be tied in to some narrative description to create I suppose some consistency between rules and the fantasy world, but on the other hand there are people who want the mechanics but not the narrative baggage, or want the narrative baggage of Warlocks and Sorcerer but are fine with the standard spellcasting rules.

Among other things, what if someone wants alternative spellcasting mechanics but wants to play a Cleric or Druid?

Overall I would have preferred either that (1) each single class had its own spellcasting mechanic, like it was 1 year ago with vancian Wizard, semi-vancian Cleric (as spellcasters are all today), spell-points Sorcerer, encounter-based Warlock, or (2) that everyone has the same spellcasting mechanic (like now) but with a generalized option in the DMG to replace it with alternative mechanics.