D&D 4E JamesonCourage Is Starting A 4e Game; Looking For Pointers

What an enjoyable & interesting thread!
Agreed :)
The sweet spot for monster levels vs PC levels is much smaller then it would appear at first sight, which I thought pre playing would be +/- 4 levels or more. The number of hits it takes to deal with a villain means this is not so as small differences matter more over all those rolls.

In practice level +/-2 is fine but +/-1 is better. More than that & lower level monsters do not feel threatening but still have lots of HP to grind through. Above that they hit too regularly which make PC defences feel irrelevant & they are too hard to hit consistently which is frustrating & also leads to feelings of grind.
I'll keep this in mind as we level. I'm planning on using equal level enemies for now, too, until I see what the party can handle.
It's also easy to scale a monster up or down a couple of levels if you want to use something specific, though not more than that or it will mean they are the "wrong" level & at that point they work as elites. Level 6 giants instead of level 10 say seems sad even as elites but it works for NPC types.
I'm actually scaling a lot of stuff to their level, and this campaign won't have a very "sandbox" feel to it. Instead, I'll more or less scale enemies according to how I see them fit in narratively with the party. That is, I can see making an ogre a solo or elite monster even at level 1, even though the majority won't do things this way. If there's nothing especially dangerous about it (it's just a big creature), then I feel okay making it an elite or solo and just using that, even if the players aren't "high level" yet.
I would also point out that soldiers do not have higher defences than other monsters, they have higher AC. They do a very different job than brutes who are resilient & destructive. A couple of soldiers should work the way defenders do - they split up the parties damage output & stop them focus firing. They need something to protect. Artillery is best as they do lots of damage & are fragile but soldiers can protect anything. They provide another way of keeping your interesting villains alive longer without making them all elites.
I only have one solder planned so far, but he's protecting two artillery, and he has some forced movement that he'll try to use to his advantage (he's near a giant fire pit, rough terrain, ceremonial spikes, etc.). I think it'll prove an interesting challenge to the players.
Packs of soldiers are not at all interesting but if you remember their roles they can work well as part of a team. They are also relatively vulnerable cf Brutes to parties that target NADs a lot - Monk, Laser Cleric & Wizard would have less of an issue than Ranger, Warlord & Fighter fighting a Soldier but would not be so happy against a Brute.
Noted.
Noone has mentioned controllers I think but they are another role that is best used sparingly as control effects can be frustrating. It's OK for most fights to have a bit of control but you do not want to load up on lots in one fight. Controllers tend to slow things down & are usually the most complex characters so harder to run. It is also something that seems to have a non linear impact - 2 controllers (PC or Monster) will have more than twice the control effect of 1 & the battle can get very locked down with 3 or more.
I kinda felt like this way the case. Like soldiers, I only have one controller planned so far, and it's a solo (though it can summon minions). I probably won't use more than one controller in a fight except in very rare circumstances.
I would not bother with free expertise. It is a silly OP feat set but only when you get to level 11 when its +2. Lower level it's good but not mandatory. If you are careful with monster levels ie not too high you will not need this & you can reassess when you approach paragon tier.
I've already given it to them. Honestly, I don't think the players will be all that system-savvy for the most part (only 1 has really played D&D for any length of time), so a little something to bump them up for free doesn't bug me. Plus, enough system-savvy people have talked about it being added for free that it doesn't strike me as a poor idea, so I'm going to go with it for now. Thanks for the advice, though (XP sent your way).
 

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I'm actually scaling a lot of stuff to their level, and this campaign won't have a very "sandbox" feel to it. Instead, I'll more or less scale enemies according to how I see them fit in narratively with the party. That is, I can see making an ogre a solo or elite monster even at level 1, even though the majority won't do things this way. If there's nothing especially dangerous about it (it's just a big creature), then I feel okay making it an elite or solo and just using that, even if the players aren't "high level" yet.

Yeah, that works fine and IMO doesn't prevent status-quo sandboxing, as long as the monster's overall threat level is consistent. It may help to think in terms of 5-level demi-tiers, eg a monster that is a Solo at levels 1-5 may be an Elite at levels 6-10, a standard at levels 11-15 and a Minion at levels 16-20. That might describe a Hill Giant or a Drow Arachnomancer, both statted as level 13 standard opponents in Monster Vault. Normal Ogres are typically standard monsters in the high-Heroic Tier, so you can make them Elites in low-Heroic. Orcs are standard monsters in low-Heroic and work well as Minions in high-Heroic. Fire Giants are standard at high-Paragon so work well as Minions in low-Epic, as Elites in low-Paragon, and as Solos in high-Heroic. Thus your level 8 PCs can battle a solo Fire Giant and his Orc minions! :)
 

Yeah, that works fine and IMO doesn't prevent status-quo sandboxing, as long as the monster's overall threat level is consistent. It may help to think in terms of 5-level demi-tiers, eg a monster that is a Solo at levels 1-5 may be an Elite at levels 6-10, a standard at levels 11-15 and a Minion at levels 16-20. That might describe a Hill Giant or a Drow Arachnomancer, both statted as level 13 standard opponents in Monster Vault. Normal Ogres are typically standard monsters in the high-Heroic Tier, so you can make them Elites in low-Heroic. Orcs are standard monsters in low-Heroic and work well as Minions in high-Heroic. Fire Giants are standard at high-Paragon so work well as Minions in low-Epic, as Elites in low-Paragon, and as Solos in high-Heroic. Thus your level 8 PCs can battle a solo Fire Giant and his Orc minions! :)
Awesome examples. Very helpful. Of my prepared monsters, I have zombie orcs (minions), an ogre zombie (elite), some undead necromancer adepts (standards), a named orc warrior (elite), and a named orc necromancer (solo). I also have some kobolds (minions), a named kobold (elite), and his two trained dogs (standards).

I think this has a good feel to it so far, and I was even thinking of hanging back on the giants for a bit (if they run across a giant, it might be a solo, but it'd be in a few levels, in all likelihood). Everything feels about right to me, but I'm definitely keeping the scaling that's been talked about recently in this thread in mind. The game should be good times :)
 

Okay, so I helped make the fourth PC tonight. It's a Genasi Wizard (Sha'ir...? The elemental type). Very fire-themed, and very knowledgeable. Skills include Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, and Nature, and she picked all the cantrips that let her substitute her Arcana for Stealth / Diplomacy / Intimidate (as encounter powers). The character worships Ioun, and was studied by other wizards in her past (before they taught her magic). She has the Ritual Caster feat (with Brew Potion) for added versatility.

The player, Katie, last played D&D about 12 years ago (2e or earlier, at that), with her uncle. She seems to have the mindset of a very new player, basically, but she seems pretty enthused with her character. Our first session will be tomorrow night, and I'll probably post how the session went in a new thread. Pretty excited on my end, though; I hope we all have a good time.
 
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Its a good group but my minor concerns from upthread are amplified. This is an encounter budget of 4 now that has even more control potency, even more minion stomping potency, even more survivability, and even less single target DPR:encounter budget ratio. There is a very real possibility that minion heavy fights (even heavily above level) will not be particularly challenging for this group. There is also a very real possibility that target acquisition for your monsters/NPCs will be extremely difficult. There is a very real possibility that fights that require striker level damage will prove disproportionately difficult for this group. There is also a very real possibility that new players who aren't quick on the uptake of the finesse and nuance of controller play may struggle to maximize their potential and get in trouble with fights that they should otherwise dominate. You'll have to feel that out I suppose.

I would consider the following:

1 - NPC/Monster Leaders or Artillery that put vulnerability on enemies, either as a rider to an attack or as a passive aura. This is a good force multiplier.

2 - NPC/Monster Leaders who have an encounter power interrupt that can either save a minion from death or can give them a saving throw to remove a debilitating status effect.

3 - Hazards and Hindering terrain galore that provides of-level riders (5 damage straight up or 3 ongoing at Heroic) to attacks that both sides can take advantage of. That will up the overall DPR of both sides in your fights and make the battlefield more interactive with forced movement and careful positioning. I'd recommend this anyway but especially for that group makeup.

Have fun and let us know how it goes!
 

Sounds like you have a nicely balanced core party: monk, warpriest, knight, sha'ir. Should be fun! I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes.
Me too! But I'll definitely post something so everyone can get my take on it. I'll even post a link in this thread to the new one so more people see it.
Could we see the orc solo necromancer?
It says the file exceeds the maximum amount it can be for the file type. I'd list a summary, but there's a lot of him... Hmm... I'll leave out the keywords, but imagine that they're there (like cold, necrotic, etc.).
[sblock]Reghem, Ice Necromancer
HP: 100, Bloodied: 50
Init: +0, Perception +5, Low-light vision
AC: 15, Fort: 12, Ref: 13, Will: 13
Speed 6, Ice Walk
Resists: cold 5, fire 5, necrotic 5
Saving Throws: +5, Action Points: 2

Standard Actions
Suppress Soul, At-Will
Melee 1 (one target); +4 vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + 5 necrotic damage, and the target is weakened until the end of its next turn.

Drain Soul, At-Will
Close burst 5 (2 creatures in the burst); +3 vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d6+6 necrotic damage, and the target is knocked prone.
Miss: Half damage.

Icy Blast, At-Will
Close blast 3 (all enemies in the blast); +2 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + 4 cold damage, and the target is knocked prone.
Miss: The target is knocked prone.

Chilling Souls, Recharge (5, 6)
Close burst 2; +2 vs Will
Hit: 1d10 + 7 necrotic damage, and you slide the target 3 squares. The target is knocked prone.
Miss: Half damage, and you push the target 2 squares.

Move Actions
Draw From Ice Mirror, At-Will
Effect: Slide 3 squares, and regain 10 hit points (-1 hit point per square away from an ice mirror).

Ice Bonds, Encounter
Close burst 5 (all prone targets in the burst); +2 vs Reflex
Hit: 2d8 cold damage, and the target is restrained and takes 5 ongoing cold damage (save ends both).
Miss: The target is slowed and takes 3 ongoing cold damage (save ends both).

Minor Actions
Activate Ice Mirrors, At-Will
Close burst 10 (two ice mirrors in the burst)
Effect: Activate one of the following effects from the target ice mirror:
(1) Summon one Orc Ice Zombie in a square adjacent to the target.
(2) Teleport Reghem, Ice Necromancer or one ally within 10 squares to a square adjacent to the target.
(3) The target mirror makes the following attack: close blast 3 (all creatures in the blast), +2 vs Reflex, Hit: 2d6 cold damage, and the target is slowed until the end of their next turn.

Triggered Actions
Absorb Ice Mirror, At-Will
Trigger: An ice mirror within 10 squares of you is destroyed.
Effect (Immediate Reaction): Reghem, Ice Necromancer gains 1 action point.

Sacrificial Defiance, At-Will
Requirement: Reghem, Ice Necromancer has one or more effects on him that a save can end.
Trigger: The start of Reghem, Ice Necromancer's turn.
Effect (No Action): Reghem automatically makes the saving throw against all of the effects, but takes 10 damage per effect he saves against.

[Skills, Abilities, Alignment, Languages, Equipment][/sblock]
He'll be setup in a room that has four ice mirrors in them. The center of the room has a 5 X 5 area of ice (difficult terrain, though a skill check might help that) that he can walk across at will (Ice Walk). Just outside the 5 X 5 area at the sides are the four ice mirrors (which he uses with his abilities). At the corners are four ritualistic fires (which can be used to damage those thrown into them). At the very center of the 5 X 5 ice area is a portal (greatly harms anyone who touches it; it will also be the focus of a skill challenge immediately following the combat). There is some rough terrain at the corners of the room, and three ritualistic spikes on three different walls (also good for skewering people, as they are literally made to do that).

The mirrors can be broken (AC: 5, HP: 10, Vulnerable 5 fire), which gives the necromancer another action point (to help keep up with the party), but since that's an immediate reaction, if they break more than one mirror in a turn, it'll mean he's missing out on those action points (as far as I know). Once the mirror are broken, he'll have no more minor action attacks, and I expect them to break the mirrors fairly early on (especially with the fire-themed Wizard), since he'll be using them from the start. Also, once he expends his move action attack (encounter power), he'll have no more move action attacks, either. And with the mirrors broken, his other move action will be good for safe moving, but no longer good for regaining HP (which I did cut some).

His standard actions are good attacks, I think; from playing it out a few times, it seems like they're felt when they do hit. I expect that the party might have to use a few healing potions in this fight (they'll have acquired 4 by this point, and the Wizard has the Brew Potion ritual), but that's okay with me. His attacks are close enough (for the most part) that he has some incentive not to run too far from the party, which means that they'll likely get hits in on him pretty regularly.

Again, it's my first shot at a solo, so it's a learning experience. Input is appreciated, but I'm going to be running game in about four hours, so I might only see stuff posted here over the next three hours.
Its a good group but my minor concerns from upthread are amplified. This is an encounter budget of 4 now that has even more control potency, even more minion stomping potency, even more survivability, and even less single target DPR:encounter budget ratio. There is a very real possibility that minion heavy fights (even heavily above level) will not be particularly challenging for this group. There is also a very real possibility that target acquisition for your monsters/NPCs will be extremely difficult. There is a very real possibility that fights that require striker level damage will prove disproportionately difficult for this group. There is also a very real possibility that new players who aren't quick on the uptake of the finesse and nuance of controller play may struggle to maximize their potential and get in trouble with fights that they should otherwise dominate. You'll have to feel that out I suppose.
Yep yep, I'll have to play some to get a more informed opinion on all of that. As of level 1, I'm not concerned with too much control power in this group, but they can handle minions pretty well. Single target damage might be a little low, too, but I think they'll get by. I'll know more as I throw stuff at them.
I would consider the following:

1 - NPC/Monster Leaders or Artillery that put vulnerability on enemies, either as a rider to an attack or as a passive aura. This is a good force multiplier.
I'm not sure that I need to add on extra damage yet, but we'll see. It didn't seem necessary when I was running through my own play through of the combats / skill challenges I have set up.
2 - NPC/Monster Leaders who have an encounter power interrupt that can either save a minion from death or can give them a saving throw to remove a debilitating status effect.
Stuff like this is always interesting (just like it is for soldiers protecting artillery, etc.). I like this idea.
3 - Hazards and Hindering terrain galore that provides of-level riders (5 damage straight up or 3 ongoing at Heroic) to attacks that both sides can take advantage of. That will up the overall DPR of both sides in your fights and make the battlefield more interactive with forced movement and careful positioning. I'd recommend this anyway but especially for that group makeup.
I already have this planned out a good amount (see my description of the solo fight, above). But, maybe that's why it seemed to be okay when I played it out; I used the terrain very aggressively on both sides (when it was an option for either side).
Have fun and let us know how it goes!
I will. Thanks everyone for all the valuable advice!
 


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