Would Paizo Make a Better Steward for Our Hobby?

Generally speaking, any company that is not publicly traded would be a better steward of /anything/ than a publicly traded company.

That said, I have great respect for the products Paizo has created up until this point in time. While I don't anticipate being let down by the quality of their RPG products in the near future, other initiatives the company has embraced, most notably the terribly misguided Pathfinder MMO, make me understandably nervous about how their management thinks. Gygax going to Hollywood was the beginning of the end for TSR.
 

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Generally speaking, any company that is not publicly traded would be a better steward of /anything/ than a publicly traded company.

That said, I have great respect for the products Paizo has created up until this point in time. While I don't anticipate being let down by the quality of their RPG products in the near future, other initiatives the company has embraced, most notably the terribly misguided Pathfinder MMO, make me understandably nervous about how their management thinks. Gygax going to Hollywood was the beginning of the end for TSR.

Paizo is not a publicly traded company - it is completely privately owned. Also Ryan Dancy is doing the Pathfinder MMO with Pathfinder's approval and some of their direction, the MMO is not a Paizo initiative - it wasn't their idea, although they are completely willing to support it. However, Paizo is not dedicating any of their employees to directly working on the MMO. The Paizo staff are writers, designers and editors, not programmers or coders of any kind. They are writing bonus content for the MMO in the form of written releases, as one of the stretch goals to the Kickstarter. Paizo has no actual investment in the MMO, it is completely funded by Ryan Dancy's company. So I see absolutely no reason to be worried as far as Paizo goes - there's no direct connection between the two. The MMO in fact doesn't actually use PF rules, per se.
 

Paizo is not a publicly traded company - it is completely privately owned.

Yes, I know, and WotC is, and is not, respectively. That was kind of my point.

Also Ryan Dancy is doing the Pathfinder MMO with Pathfinder's approval and some of their direction, the MMO is not a Paizo initiative - it wasn't their idea, although they are completely willing to support it. However, Paizo is not dedicating any of their employees to directly working on the MMO.

...

Paizo has no actual investment in the MMO, it is completely funded by Ryan Dancy's company. So I see absolutely no reason to be worried as far as Paizo goes - there's no direct connection between the two.

The two companies are linked at the senior executive level, and while things have gone pretty quiet lately, for a while there I thought I was going to have to unsubscribe from the Paizo and Pathfinder Twitter feeds for all the MMO shilling that was going on.

I mean, I get what you're saying: when the MMO tanks, Paizo is safe. And that's probably completely true, and definitely a good thing.

But it's a far cry from there to "Paizo has no actual investment in the MMO." It is pretty clearly all up ons their marketing plans.

My observation is simply that Paizo is growing up, and has begun making decisions like a corporation. Most game design firms never get that far. Is it bad? Not necessarily, but when the question is asked, "Would Paizo make a better steward for our hobby," I feel the need to point out that TSR and WotC were both once completely privately owned, and by men who loved the game.

(Love your map stuff on G+, btw)
 

Generally speaking, any company that is not publicly traded would be a better steward of /anything/ than a publicly traded company.
This is so very true.

In the case of a privately-owned company, it certainly depends on the owners. But in the case of a publically-traded company, you need to forge your entire brand around not being reprehensible... and sometimes that doesn't even work.

Cheers!
Kinak
 

I assume the Forge's approach to agendas is more of an analytic construct rather than a prescription for making a real game.
Not knowing the Forge's leading figures personally, but simply what they write and the games that they influence, I think the answer is "both".

In particular, there is a certain style of RPGIng - what I called (perhaps loosely) "mainstream" in my post upthread - to which they are hostile. What does this style look like? Well, I've just been reading Darths & Droids, and the style of GMing and RPGing it presupposes and advocates in its author commentary is as good an illustration of the "mainstream" as any.

Some features of this approach are: a "campaign" or "story" pre-plotted by the GM, and the related notion of the "sidequest"; secret backstory that affects the fictional positioning according to which the success of player-initiated actions are resolved; an emphasis on "roleplaying" as a distinct activity from "roleplaying"; an assumption that a character sheet is something like a statistical inventory of a character; a focus in that statistical inventory on combat stats and equipment rather than (say) relationships and emotional states; a corresponding focus in the action resolution systems; etc.

One typical cosequence of the "mainstream" style is that the GM exercises a very large amount of control - which may or may not be revealed to the players - over what happens in the game, and the consequences of the players' choices.

Forge design, at least as I see it, is about (i) self-conscious awareness of these features of a game, and (ii) avoiding many of them.

while some RPGs may be designed for a single agenda, I don't think you'll find many such any more.

<snip>

For pretty much any Forgist agenda, if you really wanted to serve just one, an RPG would not be the best way to serve it. I think RPGs are, by their nature, mixed.
Based on nothing more than my own experience - which may therefore be pretty limiting - I think one main cleavage in contemporary RPG design is between overtly metagame mechanics and "traditional" mechanics - I hesitate to say "simulationinst" because I think mechanics like "natural armour bonus" and NPC/monster building in 3E more generally are traditional, but aren't simulationist in any clear sense (contrast say RM, RQ or Traveller).

For instance, this cleavage explains about 95% of the 3E vs 4e debates I've experienced; seems to explain about 95% of the current debates around "damage on a miss"; and was replicated in all the debates around Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, including whether or not it had a character build system (my answer - of course it did! It just wasn't a traditional one of either points buy or choosing one item from each of N lists).

But this design distinction bleeds into a lot of other issues as well, such as who has authority over plot, whether resolution is "task based" or "conflict/scene based", etc, which in turn bleed into larger agenda issues.

If you look at MHRP, for instance, it can't be played proccess-sim, nor (as far as I can see) with "step on up" - leaving only high concept sim ("I'm a big damn Marvel hero") or (thematically fairly light) narratvism ("Let's find out what this Marvel hero needs, and whether s/he can get it). I think this is actually not unlike 4e, except 4e, especially in its combat mechanics, also allows for a certain style of (non-Gygaxian) step-on-up.

I don't know if you would call these "single agenda" games, but I think they have a tightness in their design which to my mind makes them closer to Traveller, RQ or RM than (say) 2nd ed AD&D.

This is one of my biggest problems with the Forge approach: The assumption that an RPG should be designed to serve only one agenda. It's like saying that a car should be designed either to be fast, or to be reliable, or to be safe in a collision, and no car design should attempt to pursue more than one of these goals.
And thereby making perfect the enemy of good? Or, perhaps more importantly, forgetting the social nature of the endeavor, such that being with people may be a more important part of the experience than purity of the activity.

I can analogize to a dinner party.

<snip>

if my friend is vegetarian, I'm making sure there's food for her at the darn party! Integrity of the menu can go to heck!
I think the Forge view is predicated on the assumption that, as an activity, playing an RPG is different from driving a car or having friends over to a dinner party. This assumption may be true or false (I'm sympathetic to it, others obviously are not) but I think it can't be ignored if you want to make sense of the Forge position.

At least as I read Forge ideas, and have applied them in my own gaming, a key premise is that RPGing involves collective generation of a shared imaginary space. Which then gives rise to the question "How do we create that shared imaginary space? And what are the criteria for introducing elements into it?" Certain ways of doing this are incompatible with others.

"Mainstream" RPGing of the Darths & Droids variety basically makes the GM the answer to this question. That relies on a certain social dynamic - about subordinatin of some participants' aesthetic preferences to those of others, often very forcefully asserted once words like "power game" and "munchkin" start getting hurled around - which is itself quite specific but I think also somewhat ubiquitous in mainstream RPGing.

Forge design is therefore, in part, about exploring how other social dynamics might be incorporated into RPGing to allow different approaches to building the shared imaginary space. Different mechanical and system techniques are then interesting not just in themselves, but as ways of doing this.
 

From a strategic level, it means treating the D&D brand and its fans with respect. D&D needs to be well supported through high quality products that each serve a clear purpose and provide a great value.

The goal should be to release fewer products, but to have each one heavily anticipated and loved.

Let's look at some Paizo products that exemplify this:

[<snip>

The thing these all have in common is an attempt to be complete and purposeful resources. They are all high value propositions.

If WotC can copy and build upon this model, they will do well.
I'm not sure that this is, in itself, very specific advice. Afterall, some people feel that they are not being treated with respect by 4e, or some aspects of Next design (like damage on a miss), or James Wyatt's polls on the website, or sundry other things.

Whereas, the only experience I've had with WotC that would make me think of my relationship to them in terms of "respect" would be dealing with their customer service once, who were very helpful and diligent.

As far as anticipated and loved products, I think this is even less specific. One person's anticipated and loved product can be another's hated one.
 

In my Fantasy Publishing Company I would...

Give the job of writing the rules to Tweet, Heinsoo and Cook.

Give the production of the physical product to Fantasy Flight Games.

License out full blown lavish versions of some settings (to):

Greyhawk...Goodman Games
Forgotten Realms...Paizo
Eberron...Privateer Press

and just for me...a full on glorious production of the Hellfrost setting by Triple Ace Games for D&D. The depth and quality of writing for this setting by Wiggy Williams is outstanding.

Be nice that :)
 


In the case of a privately-owned company, it certainly depends on the owners. But in the case of a publically-traded company, you need to forge your entire brand around not being reprehensible... and sometimes that doesn't even work.

The neutering of content is just a symptom of a much larger problem: the purpose of any company with shareholders is profit, rather than quality. Less quality = more profit, every time.

If only it wasn't a law that companies had to go public....

This is getting off-topic, but by the time a company can be forced to go public by the government -- at least in the US -- it already has 500 shareholders. At which point there is already a problem, initial public offering or no initial public offering.
 

To answer the question in the thread title: NO. To be honest I don't get the difference between the two companies at all. If a WotC employee or ad says something bad about 3.5 (Grapple rules) then it is taken as a huge slap in the face. When Piazo does the same (Fighters have spells) everyone cheers. Someone once wrote if WotC put $100 in every PHB there would be people on the internet complaining the next day it was folded the wrong way.
 

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