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Need help fleshing out selection of spells dealing with fire/cold

System Ufera

First Post
Hello! As some of you are aware, I'm designing my own Pen n' Paper RPG system from the ground up, and I occasionally ask the ENWorld community for help with certain types of content for my system. This time, I'm having trouble adding variety to one college of magic in particular: Thermancy.

Thermancy is a combination of the more traditional Pyromancy and Cryomancy colleges you'll find in other systems; the reason I've combined them, in case you're curious, is due to the nature of magic in my game. You see, magic is basically another type of technology, in that to use it effectively, you need to be well-learned in science. In other words, rather than treating magic as an exception to physical law like other settings do, my game treats magic as part of physical law. Without going on too much more of a tangent explaining magic overall, the reason Thermancy is one college of magic is because "hot" and "cold" are just differing amounts of the same thing.

That said, I'm at a loss as to how to actually flesh out this college with spell effects; all I have so far is a spell effect called "Ignite," which creates heat and possibly burns things if enough heat is generated, and "Freeze," a spell effect that makes things cold, potentially freezing them. Because the effects of spells and their shapes are treated separately in my system (at the time of casting, a spellcaster chooses a spell effect and a spell shape, such as "bolt," burst," "wall," etc., and combines them into a spell), the "Ignite" spell effect on its own can be used to cause a small fire or a raging inferno, and to spread the flames all over the place or concentrate them in a line or barrier, and anything in between, as long as the spellcaster has mastered the shape in question; as you've probably guessed, it's the similar with the "Freeze" spell effect.

The magnitude of the spell is also changeable within the one spell effect. Despite the names, "Ignite" doesn't actually have to create enough heat to burn anything, and "Freeze" can be used to make one comfortable on a hot day just as easily as cause your blood vessels to burst open. The only limit to the magnitudes of Ignite and Freeze is how smart you are, and that's the upper limit; the lower limit, of course, is doing next to nothing. All of this is up to the will and capability of the wizard... and, from the perspective of game design, this is a problem.

Those two spell effects, as far as I can tell, make up just about everything that can be done with Thermancy. I don't know of any extra things intrinsic to fire and/or cold damage that isn't already accounted for (the damage type itself has the extra stuff built in; deal enough fire damage from any source, and the target will take ongoing fire damage from being on fire, whereas sufficient cold damage makes it harder to move as your nerves go numb). I'd rather not split the spell effects into different magnitudes, because that would make pursuing Thermancy less worthwhile due to the greater amount of investment required to obtain a standard damage-type spell effect (because, just like the "crawl before walk" proverb, one has to learn to magically heat a cup of coffee before one can learn to burn the whole town to ashes, and there would also be the many stages in between). The only thing I can think of for another spell effect is making flaming snowballs, which would just be a combination of weakened versions of Ignite and Freeze.

So... any ideas?
 

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Well, there are all kinds of things you can do with Thermancy:

1) without causing what would be HP damage in D&D, thermal effects can induce conditions. Hypo/hyperthermia can cause dizziness, disorientation, discomfort, dehydration, impair judgement, and so forth. (I've experienced both ends of the scale here, getting frostbite in a blizzard in Kansas, and nearly dying of heat stroke in Texas.)

2) thermal effects can cause structural damage to materials. Beyond mere melting or freezing, objects encountering simultaneous exposure to heat and cold extremes can become brittle, as can those experiencing rapid cycling between temperature extremes.

3) paradoxically, careful use of extreme temperatures at both ends can also strengthen materials by causing them to realign their molecular structures.
 

Right off the bat, I'm picturing the flashy effects from Final Fantasy regarding the different spells.

So your two spells, Ignite and Freeze, heat and cool things, in different spell shapes, and in different magnitudes. By older standards, each "spell" is already actually a series of many other spells.

But if you mix lesser amounts of other elements in, you get:
Hail - target is attacked by ice pellets.
Icicle - target is impaled by spike of ice.
Lavaball - target gets hit by semi-persistent blob of molten earth.
or, let's just say it:
Meteo - one or more rocks, moving so fast that friction lights them up, bombard target.

That was water and earth...mix in some air and you could have:

Ice Gale - cold damage pushes target around.
 

Sorry for the delay in my reply. Anyway...

Well, there are all kinds of things you can do with Thermancy:

1) without causing what would be HP damage in D&D, thermal effects can induce conditions. Hypo/hyperthermia can cause dizziness, disorientation, discomfort, dehydration, impair judgement, and so forth. (I've experienced both ends of the scale here, getting frostbite in a blizzard in Kansas, and nearly dying of heat stroke in Texas.)

2) thermal effects can cause structural damage to materials. Beyond mere melting or freezing, objects encountering simultaneous exposure to heat and cold extremes can become brittle, as can those experiencing rapid cycling between temperature extremes.

3) paradoxically, careful use of extreme temperatures at both ends can also strengthen materials by causing them to realign their molecular structures.

As for #1, wouldn't that be more the realm of long-term afflictions? I mean, if you're in the middle of a skirmish-sized encounter, chances are you're going to try to take your enemy out quickly, rather than wait for your enemy to get sick after you raised or lowered the temperature of the area. I suppose it would be somewhat useful in a large-scale battle, where enough time can reasonably pass that making your enemy sick would be a viable strategy, or perhaps if you stealth your way into the enemy camp to make them sick before they are to be engaged... #2 and #3 are most definitely good ideas, though.

Right off the bat, I'm picturing the flashy effects from Final Fantasy regarding the different spells.

So your two spells, Ignite and Freeze, heat and cool things, in different spell shapes, and in different magnitudes. By older standards, each "spell" is already actually a series of many other spells.

But if you mix lesser amounts of other elements in, you get:
Hail - target is attacked by ice pellets.
Icicle - target is impaled by spike of ice.
Lavaball - target gets hit by semi-persistent blob of molten earth.
or, let's just say it:
Meteo - one or more rocks, moving so fast that friction lights them up, bombard target.

That was water and earth...mix in some air and you could have:

Ice Gale - cold damage pushes target around.

Elementalism (which, in my game, has less to to with the classical "earth, fire, water, wind" elements and more to do with the Periodic Table of Elements) is a separate college, and so far I'm not entirely sure how to properly mix colleges. Weather-based effects are a good idea, though, considering that a lot of weather is mostly the result of temperature changes, if I'm not mistaken.
 



As for #1, wouldn't that be more the realm of long-term afflictions? I mean, if you're in the middle of a skirmish-sized encounter, chances are you're going to try to take your enemy out quickly, rather than wait for your enemy to get sick after you raised or lowered the temperature of the area. I suppose it would be somewhat useful in a large-scale battle, where enough time can reasonably pass that making your enemy sick would be a viable strategy, or perhaps if you stealth your way into the enemy camp to make them sick before they are to be engaged... #2 and #3 are most definitely good ideas, though.
Presumably, magic will work faster than natural exposure.

Foes who are dizzy, disoriented, severely dehydrated, or otherwise judgement impaired due to thermal exposure will immediately be less effective, and it will only get worse. In D&D terms, their Str, Dex, and Int will be diminished; possibly other as as well. They may experience AC or attack penalties, and are penalties

As a minor effect; a few seconds of magic: a -1 to those stats in a single target, and that's it.

A medium effect would be the same -1 to all targets in an area.

A major effect would increase the penalties: -1 to start, with continued minuses every designated time period as exposure gets worse.

Any of the above could also be done via imposing conditions like Dazed or Fatigued.
 

Presumably, magic will work faster than natural exposure.

Erm... not quite. As I explained in my first post, magic in my system's setting is not an exception to physical law, but a part of it. For example (and I'm not sure why I didn't include this example in the first place), if you want to throw a fireball at your enemies, you've got to first learn how fires burn, then you have to learn how to convert arcane energy into thermal energy, and, optionally, you have to learn how to set aside more arcane energy as fuel for the fire you'll be making, in case you don't already have something to act as fuel. If you want to make a bigger fireball, you have to learn more effective formulae and techniques for converting arcane energy into thermal energy.

Anyway, magic won't necessarily work faster than natural exposure, since the magic itself would be merely causing an effect identical to natural exposure. I'd assume that just trying for greater exposure would eventually go into the realm of doing straight-up damage anyway, but I could be wrong. I suppose, if you really wanted to make your enemies sick, you could try trapping your enemies so they couldn't attack you, then raising/lowering the temperature, then using a really hard-to-master and energy-draining spell from the college of Dimensiomancy to create a dimensional pocket of altered space-time, so the effect takes place quicker (and making trapping your enemies beforehand even more important, since you'd be speeding them up, making them much deadlier in a fight); or, you could use a Biomancy spell to weaken their ability to resist the effects of the heat or cold. Of course, if you're already planning on using Biomancy, there would be a lot of much easier ways to make your enemies sick, and so you'd probably be doing one of those things instead.
 

Erm... not quite. As I explained in my first post, magic in my system's setting is not an exception to physical law, but a part of it. For example (and I'm not sure why I didn't include this example in the first place), if you want to throw a fireball at your enemies, you've got to first learn how fires burn, then you have to learn how to convert arcane energy into thermal energy, and, optionally, you have to learn how to set aside more arcane energy as fuel for the fire you'll be making, in case you don't already have something to act as fuel. If you want to make a bigger fireball, you have to learn more effective formulae and techniques for converting arcane energy into thermal energy.

Depending on what your system allows, hypothermia may still be easier to cause with magic, due to being able to focus the effect. Hypothermia is based on core temperature dropping, which normally takes a while because people insulate themselves while out in the cold. There would be (at least) two possible ways to hasten the process with magic:

1) The Direct Way: Use magical energy to cool the body's core. This would probably be the most confusing, since you'd have to determine how to do that specifically (since you're going with a more scientific bend).

2) Leeching: Find an exposed point on the body and funnel heat away through it (head, hands, and feet would work best). Since magic can be controlled, it's more like drawing blood than trying to bludgeon is out of someone (raw, undirected cold).

Frostbite could be handled the same way to reach "protected" areas, but would likely be easier to just apply more cold/remove more heat.
 

Depending on what your system allows, hypothermia may still be easier to cause with magic, due to being able to focus the effect. Hypothermia is based on core temperature dropping, which normally takes a while because people insulate themselves while out in the cold. There would be (at least) two possible ways to hasten the process with magic:

1) The Direct Way: Use magical energy to cool the body's core. This would probably be the most confusing, since you'd have to determine how to do that specifically (since you're going with a more scientific bend).

2) Leeching: Find an exposed point on the body and funnel heat away through it (head, hands, and feet would work best). Since magic can be controlled, it's more like drawing blood than trying to bludgeon is out of someone (raw, undirected cold).

Frostbite could be handled the same way to reach "protected" areas, but would likely be easier to just apply more cold/remove more heat.

Ah... this makes sense. It still wouldn't be useful in battle; even if this means you could do it quickly, you could only do it on one target at a time due to the concentration required to do it with either way you mentioned, and at that, it'd still be more effective to simply deal direct damage to the target. However...

Now that I think of it, battles aren't the only places where a campaign can take an adventurer. The ability to cause hypothermia would be a very useful ability for an assassin; the lack of any sudden damage to the body would make it very hard to detect anything out of the ordinary, during both the kill itself and any autopsies performed. Furthermore, by having a much smaller effect, less energy would be required, making it harder to detect the residual energy from the spell itself.
 

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