OOC - Mad Kings Monkey II (recruiting closed)
- Thread starter doghead
- Start date
I haven't been having those problems - I run IE with the pop-up filter set to "Hell, no!" if that helps anyone.
doghead
thotd
Just a heads up, I am going to visit friends in the country tomorrow, and not sure what the internet access will be like. So it might be a couple of days until I can update.
[MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION] I tend to agree with Morrus. I think you might have a virus.
[MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION] Nice one on the phone. I think I looked at an app that allowed me to check Enworld via my phone, but it was fiddly, and IIRC, there was some fairly intrusive advertising.
thotd
[MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION] I tend to agree with Morrus. I think you might have a virus.
[MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION] Nice one on the phone. I think I looked at an app that allowed me to check Enworld via my phone, but it was fiddly, and IIRC, there was some fairly intrusive advertising.
thotd
doghead
thotd
Working on an IC update at the moment, but before I do there are a couple of things I wanted to mention.
The Netherworld encounter was intended as a multi-threat challenge. While I think it worked on some levels, I think overall the experience was more frustrating (which I wasn't going for) than disturbing and/or threatening (which I was going for). I think this is partly because I tend to play my meta-game cards very close to my chest. I am, at heart, a simulationist - for me the joy of gaming comes from immersion in the setting. I tend to want to covey information through the IC description*. But of course characters immersion is much greater than any player's (and they are probably a little less distracted by things like RL), and their experience is much more information rich. Which is where some meta-game or OOC information is appropriate.
There are some DM who seem to make this seem effortless. I am not one of those unfortunately. So sorry, I am going to use you as my test subjects as I work on improving. Feel free to let me know how you are going, because feedback is good.
I also really like the idea of allowing players to utilise a range of character resources - abilities, skills, background etc - to tackle problems. If you can describe how it applies, I will consider it. With the Netherworld I had in mind a couple of ways each element could be countered, but it was in no way an exhaustive list. You came up with some I had thought of, some I hadn't.
So, with that said, I thought that I would allow each of you to make a "information" check using any skill or attribute that you think would be relevant to your characters experience in the Netherworld. I am still tossing up whether to go with one yes/no question for each 5 points above the DC, or just providing one piece of information per 5 points above the DC. Perhaps I should let you choose which one you want.
* I have lined up the initial description from each Moment below in case it useful.
[sblock=Moment One]The ground falls away slightly at the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, mostly rock and hard dirt strewn with loose rocks and boulders. The footing is treacherous enough to require those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The path meanders a little, but cuts a fairly unobstructed path up the slope of the valley to the saddle at the far end.
Small clusters of rough spiky bushes are scattered around the valley on either side of the path. Despite their spindly branches and sparse spiky foliage, their interiors seem draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped them up within their branches.
At first the Netherworld appears silent except for the small noises of your passage across the hard ground. But gradually you become aware of a low discordant hum lurking in among the crunch of boots on hard ground, the clatter of stones dislodged and the small clinks of hard item against like. Elusive when listened for, it snatches your thoughts as soon as you stop pay attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Two]The ground falls away slightly as the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, mostly rock and hard dirt strewn with loose rocks and boulders. The footing is treacherous enough to require those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track zigs and zags as it works its way through the valley and up the far side.
Small clusters of rough spiky bushes crowd in on either side of the path forcing it to twist and wind its way between them. The way between the bushes remains unobstructed but the tough spiky branches seem to be reaching towards the open corridor. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, batter exposed limbs. Despite their spindly branches and sparse spiky foliage, their interiors seem draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped them up within their branches.
A low discordant hum lurks in among the crunch of boots on hard ground, the clatter of stones dislodged and the small clinks of hard item against like. Elusive when listened for, it snatches your thoughts as soon as you stop pay attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Three]The ground falls away slightly as the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, rock and hard dirt covered with jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track zigs and zags as it works its way through the valley and up the far side.
Large twisted spiky bushes crowd the path forcing it to twist and wind its way like an animal track between them. The way between the bushes criss crossed by the tough spiky branches leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. The tough knotty branches and sparse spiky foliage are draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped up the path in gloom.
The gloom is filled with a terrible dissonance. It is as if from a great distance millions of voices are all crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony of their own cries. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Four]The ground levels and begins to rise as the path works its way across the floor of the valley and up the other side. The entry portal is not visible, nor is the destination portal. The ground is rough and broken, broken rock overlaid with with loose jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track twists and turns as it works its way across the valley and up the far side.
Small stunted trees bristling with jagged spikes crowd the path forcing it to twist and wind its way like an animal track between them. The trees loom across the path, reaching into the space and leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the knotted, thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. The tough knotty branches and sparse spiky foliage are draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped up the path in deepening gloom.
The gloom is filled with a terrible chorus. It is as if millions of voices are all singing a song of their loneliness, crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak. The lingering refrain of Jan's song seems to keep it at bay.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Five]The ground rise as the path works its way up the valley towards the exit; a simple stone door frame just visible through the trees and the gloom. Above it rises a huge, heavy thundercloud, a might grey anvil squatting malevolently over the portal. The slope is a ogre's staircase built of fractured and broken boulders overlaid with with loose jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track is nothing more than a suggestion, a lingering echo of something like a path.
Gnarled and stunted trees bristling with jagged spikes and draped in shadow, inside of which even darker shadows seem to shift and slide, crowd slope up to the portal. The trees loom across the path, reaching into the space and leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the knotted, thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. Between the dark clouds overhead and the shadows draped from the trees it is as if night has begun to claim the land.
The gloom is filled with a terrible chorus. It is as if millions of voices are all singing a song of their loneliness, crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak. Only the last lingering refrain of Jan's song continues to keep it at bay for the moment.[/sblock]
The Netherworld encounter was intended as a multi-threat challenge. While I think it worked on some levels, I think overall the experience was more frustrating (which I wasn't going for) than disturbing and/or threatening (which I was going for). I think this is partly because I tend to play my meta-game cards very close to my chest. I am, at heart, a simulationist - for me the joy of gaming comes from immersion in the setting. I tend to want to covey information through the IC description*. But of course characters immersion is much greater than any player's (and they are probably a little less distracted by things like RL), and their experience is much more information rich. Which is where some meta-game or OOC information is appropriate.
There are some DM who seem to make this seem effortless. I am not one of those unfortunately. So sorry, I am going to use you as my test subjects as I work on improving. Feel free to let me know how you are going, because feedback is good.
I also really like the idea of allowing players to utilise a range of character resources - abilities, skills, background etc - to tackle problems. If you can describe how it applies, I will consider it. With the Netherworld I had in mind a couple of ways each element could be countered, but it was in no way an exhaustive list. You came up with some I had thought of, some I hadn't.
So, with that said, I thought that I would allow each of you to make a "information" check using any skill or attribute that you think would be relevant to your characters experience in the Netherworld. I am still tossing up whether to go with one yes/no question for each 5 points above the DC, or just providing one piece of information per 5 points above the DC. Perhaps I should let you choose which one you want.
* I have lined up the initial description from each Moment below in case it useful.
[sblock=Moment One]The ground falls away slightly at the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, mostly rock and hard dirt strewn with loose rocks and boulders. The footing is treacherous enough to require those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The path meanders a little, but cuts a fairly unobstructed path up the slope of the valley to the saddle at the far end.
Small clusters of rough spiky bushes are scattered around the valley on either side of the path. Despite their spindly branches and sparse spiky foliage, their interiors seem draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped them up within their branches.
At first the Netherworld appears silent except for the small noises of your passage across the hard ground. But gradually you become aware of a low discordant hum lurking in among the crunch of boots on hard ground, the clatter of stones dislodged and the small clinks of hard item against like. Elusive when listened for, it snatches your thoughts as soon as you stop pay attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Two]The ground falls away slightly as the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, mostly rock and hard dirt strewn with loose rocks and boulders. The footing is treacherous enough to require those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track zigs and zags as it works its way through the valley and up the far side.
Small clusters of rough spiky bushes crowd in on either side of the path forcing it to twist and wind its way between them. The way between the bushes remains unobstructed but the tough spiky branches seem to be reaching towards the open corridor. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, batter exposed limbs. Despite their spindly branches and sparse spiky foliage, their interiors seem draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped them up within their branches.
A low discordant hum lurks in among the crunch of boots on hard ground, the clatter of stones dislodged and the small clinks of hard item against like. Elusive when listened for, it snatches your thoughts as soon as you stop pay attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Three]The ground falls away slightly as the track departs the portal and enters the valley. The ground is rough and broken, rock and hard dirt covered with jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track zigs and zags as it works its way through the valley and up the far side.
Large twisted spiky bushes crowd the path forcing it to twist and wind its way like an animal track between them. The way between the bushes criss crossed by the tough spiky branches leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. The tough knotty branches and sparse spiky foliage are draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped up the path in gloom.
The gloom is filled with a terrible dissonance. It is as if from a great distance millions of voices are all crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony of their own cries. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Four]The ground levels and begins to rise as the path works its way across the floor of the valley and up the other side. The entry portal is not visible, nor is the destination portal. The ground is rough and broken, broken rock overlaid with with loose jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track twists and turns as it works its way across the valley and up the far side.
Small stunted trees bristling with jagged spikes crowd the path forcing it to twist and wind its way like an animal track between them. The trees loom across the path, reaching into the space and leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the knotted, thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. The tough knotty branches and sparse spiky foliage are draped in shade, as if they have gathered up the surrounding shadows and wrapped up the path in deepening gloom.
The gloom is filled with a terrible chorus. It is as if millions of voices are all singing a song of their loneliness, crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak. The lingering refrain of Jan's song seems to keep it at bay.[/sblock]
[sblock=Moment Five]The ground rise as the path works its way up the valley towards the exit; a simple stone door frame just visible through the trees and the gloom. Above it rises a huge, heavy thundercloud, a might grey anvil squatting malevolently over the portal. The slope is a ogre's staircase built of fractured and broken boulders overlaid with with loose jagged rocks and stones that shift and slide underfoot. The footing is treacherous requiring those on the move to pay attention to what they are doing. The track is nothing more than a suggestion, a lingering echo of something like a path.
Gnarled and stunted trees bristling with jagged spikes and draped in shadow, inside of which even darker shadows seem to shift and slide, crowd slope up to the portal. The trees loom across the path, reaching into the space and leaving an open path too small for a fully grown adult to walk though without being forced to duck under and step around the knotted, thorny branches. They snag clothes, tear at bare skin with brutal thorns, and batter exposed limbs. Between the dark clouds overhead and the shadows draped from the trees it is as if night has begun to claim the land.
The gloom is filled with a terrible chorus. It is as if millions of voices are all singing a song of their loneliness, crying out at at the same time for attention, but each one hopelessly lost in the cacophony. It fills your head, a terrible meaningless symphony punctuated by fragmentary snatches of clarity constantly snatching at your attention, snagging in the corners of the mind like burrs in a woollen cloak. Only the last lingering refrain of Jan's song continues to keep it at bay for the moment.[/sblock]
Thanks for the explanatory notes. I found that encounter frustrating, disturbing and threatening. Probably in that order. To be assaulted so heavily without respite was frustrating and threatening. To have no obvious sources of the attacks was disturbing.
I do appreciate the chance to learn more about how we could "fight back", for lack if a better phrase. Unfortunately Bayar is not in the party for his thinking, nor does he have a great deal of skills that could be useful for learning more (or indeed a great deal of skill points...). As I see it:
Prof(soldier): Already used. Blows landed are deliberate and not the result of "walking through a blackberry bush".
Heal: Could tell us more about the type of thing attacking us. Shape of the wound, "pine needles" left behind etc.
Intimidate: Gonna be a bit of a long bow here... Are the physical and mental attacks linked? Did the timing coincide indicating a single source or an experienced group? Or was it disjointed a little? Was it possible to sub-consciously understand the goal of whatever was beating seven shades of
out of us?
I do appreciate the chance to learn more about how we could "fight back", for lack if a better phrase. Unfortunately Bayar is not in the party for his thinking, nor does he have a great deal of skills that could be useful for learning more (or indeed a great deal of skill points...). As I see it:
Prof(soldier): Already used. Blows landed are deliberate and not the result of "walking through a blackberry bush".
Heal: Could tell us more about the type of thing attacking us. Shape of the wound, "pine needles" left behind etc.
Intimidate: Gonna be a bit of a long bow here... Are the physical and mental attacks linked? Did the timing coincide indicating a single source or an experienced group? Or was it disjointed a little? Was it possible to sub-consciously understand the goal of whatever was beating seven shades of
out of us?
Scott DeWar
Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
*head spins*
mind reals*
*stomach lurches*
Ok. My thoughts on this horror story. It had pretty much the right amount of creep factor that you can put into a d and d game. It is very hard to do that in any game.
I found the challenge of it very much to my liking:
1. I am playing a bard, a class that I am not too familiar with with the exception of the bard in first edition where you start in fighter, then thief and finally in the training of the druids.
2. the idea of the netherworld being homebrew, to gives a complete mystery to the whole game
3. we are playing an adventure path of which I know just barely a modicum of knowledge.
I am luvin' it!
mind reals*
*stomach lurches*
Ok. My thoughts on this horror story. It had pretty much the right amount of creep factor that you can put into a d and d game. It is very hard to do that in any game.
I found the challenge of it very much to my liking:
1. I am playing a bard, a class that I am not too familiar with with the exception of the bard in first edition where you start in fighter, then thief and finally in the training of the druids.
2. the idea of the netherworld being homebrew, to gives a complete mystery to the whole game
3. we are playing an adventure path of which I know just barely a modicum of knowledge.
I am luvin' it!
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I found the descriptions very creepy and disturbing, so that totally worked on that level.
But as a player I was frustrated at the thorns because I felt I had very little control over what to do other than endure with my saves - and as a 2nd level character, I'm basically in the hands of the dice gods to keep myself alive. It was sort of interesting to try to figure out what things we could use to help ourselves, but I still had only a vague sense of what I could do to protect myself or others. I moved slow, I tried to duck, I had my staff to help me not get tripped, but even after all that I still have only a +1 to my Reflex save (I didn't know if we got any numerical bonus for certain actions or equipment).
For Ullara, with only a single healing spell available, a big party, and the probably-wounded Baron at the end the line, it felt like getting into a slap-fight against a windmill. Her outdoor prowess availed her not at all, which was definitely scary, and if she had been hit more than a couple of times, she would have dropped dead.
So... on the one hand, good frightening description. On the other hand, I felt helpless and hapless.
If we're able to quantify, together, what we can do to save ourselves, hopefully the return trip will be less frustrating.
But as a player I was frustrated at the thorns because I felt I had very little control over what to do other than endure with my saves - and as a 2nd level character, I'm basically in the hands of the dice gods to keep myself alive. It was sort of interesting to try to figure out what things we could use to help ourselves, but I still had only a vague sense of what I could do to protect myself or others. I moved slow, I tried to duck, I had my staff to help me not get tripped, but even after all that I still have only a +1 to my Reflex save (I didn't know if we got any numerical bonus for certain actions or equipment).
For Ullara, with only a single healing spell available, a big party, and the probably-wounded Baron at the end the line, it felt like getting into a slap-fight against a windmill. Her outdoor prowess availed her not at all, which was definitely scary, and if she had been hit more than a couple of times, she would have dropped dead.
So... on the one hand, good frightening description. On the other hand, I felt helpless and hapless.
If we're able to quantify, together, what we can do to save ourselves, hopefully the return trip will be less frustrating.
doghead
thotd
Thanks for the feedback. Its good to know that the encounter wasn't a complete disaster. I have to go to work soon, and then I really need to get some sleep. But your comments have given me some ideas, and something to work on. I will get back to you with a response tomorrow.
Cheers
thotd
Cheers
thotd
G
Guest 11456
Guest
Just to be clear, we are to make 3 or 4 rolls per round?
1. AC Check vs Netherworld Attack/Damage [not understanding what the roll is here]
2. Mobility Check (Acrobatics, Jump, Climb, Reflex) [mobility check using our favorite check]
3. Will Save ['nuff said]
4. Attack/Damage rolls [optional]
What type of roll is required for number one above?
1. AC Check vs Netherworld Attack/Damage [not understanding what the roll is here]
2. Mobility Check (Acrobatics, Jump, Climb, Reflex) [mobility check using our favorite check]
3. Will Save ['nuff said]
4. Attack/Damage rolls [optional]
What type of roll is required for number one above?
doghead
thotd
Yes. Although #1 may entail two rolls (Attack and Damage if required), as might #4.
I just thought I would try running with "the player makes all rolls" approach for this section.
So rather than me rolling for the Netherworld Attack/Damage, you do. Attack +1. Damage 1d6. Effectively, you are trying to roll under your AC with 1d20+1. If you fail, you suffer 1d6 damage.
Yes. Your PC doesn't have to attempt an attack (but trust me, you want to) So number 4. is optional.
thotd
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