D&D 5E Prestige Classes and similar things

[Derren]

Of course there will be some kind of prestige classes.
What else will they fill their splatbooks with?

 

[Blackwarder]

I fervently hope there won't be prestige classes in next, the current multiclassing rules are bad enough, let's not add a bunch of super classes to the mix.

Warder

 

[Li Shenron]

Of course there will be some kind of prestige classes.
What else will they fill their splatbooks with?

Well the publication scheme is expected to be nowhere near the amount of 3e splatbooks. They will most likely fill supplements with subclasses, feats, spells, subraces (less), backgrounds (much less), and rules modules.

 

[Grazzt]

Of course there will be some kind of prestige classes.
What else will they fill their splatbooks with?

New classes, sub-classes, spells, feats. Tons of stuff they can go with.

 

[KidSnide]

Of course there will be some kind of prestige classes.
What else will they fill their splatbooks with?

I hope they fill their splatbooks with less splat. I like extra options when they open up a concept that wasn't well supported before, but many of the 3e / 4e splatbooks sacrificed quality and playtesting on the alter of filling up pages with new rules material.

Higher quality, lower quantity -- that would be a terrific tradeoff.

-KS

 

[Philousk]

Of course there will be some kind of prestige classes.
What else will they fill their splatbooks with?

Do you think it will be also question of rules for realms management, strongholds building and mass combats or all of it will be in the DMG?


Otherwise, this article L & L had a very good list of rules to be developed that were originally intended for the advanced rules. Maybe it is partly this that will be in the splatbooks to come!

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The concept of 3e prestige classes was built around requirements. You had to complete the mechanical requirements and (possibly) also some narrative requirements in order to enter a prestige class.

That's not how I see it at all. Prestige classes in 3e were built around flexibility, with the narrative informing the mechanics. Anyone could become an Assassin or Duelist, if you were sneaky (and evil), or a good enough fighter. How do you measure such things, though? Through skill ranks, and feats - things that anyone could take - and base combat bonuses that every class got over time. That some people looked at this system and immediately reduced it to "must get into this class as quickly as possible" is just a failure of the system to account for certain human motivations.

 

[Li Shenron]

That's not how I see it at all. Prestige classes in 3e were built around flexibility, with the narrative informing the mechanics. Anyone could become an Assassin or Duelist, if you were sneaky (and evil), or a good enough fighter. How do you measure such things, though? Through skill ranks, and feats - things that anyone could take - and base combat bonuses that every class got over time. That some people looked at this system and immediately reduced it to "must get into this class as quickly as possible" is just a failure of the system to account for certain human motivations.

Yes but 3e prestige classes covered a lot of ground, thus they included both general concepts that could be natural specializations of some characters (thus you could imagine a PC simply entering that path through self-study), and others which represented secret lore delivered by specific teachers (thus requiring membership in a closed group).

However this is a narrative difference, and was left mostly to each gaming group of DM to define. "Assassin" could be in one campaign a natural evolution of any character getting better and better at sneaking, ambush and murder, or in another campaign it could represent a set of secret techniques than can be learned only if you are admitted into a specific guild. Of course, printed books had to choose a default presentation, but the original designer of the prestige class concept (IIRC Monte Cook) meant them to be a more flexible tool for players and DMs.

What I meant with "built around requirements" is that (once your prestige class is designed) every member of a prestige class have in common its requirements + the 1st level features, but also every prestige class has some requirements at least, so presumably a 5e mechanics that wants to represent the same thing as prestige classes needs to support requirements (that's one reason why I wrote that subclasses may not be good to represent prestige classes).

 

[1of3]

While subclasses and feats can offer customisation, they do not provide another aspect that prestige classes were supposed to have. (In the end, prestige classes didn't do it either.) That is, tying a character to the world. - "The Web Wardens are pretty impressed with you, they want to teach you their shtick."

Prestige classes were bad for that kind of narrative because of their complexity. As a GM, it was quite hard to whip up a Web Warden prestige class. And the published classes had prerequisites so arcane that random characters meeting the Web Wardens would be ill equipped to enter their august ranks.

Now in 5e, subclasses and feats are not very good for this move either. Subclasses start very early, so you might have chosen a subclass, when you meet the Web Wardens. Feats on the hand come in very irregularly. It might take several level-ups before a character might be able to consider the Webbery Warding feat.

So if the designers want to support this theme, they have to cook up something beside subclasses and feats. Boons from 4e might be a way to go.

 

[Li Shenron]

Now in 5e, subclasses and feats are not very good for this move either. Subclasses start very early, so you might have chosen a subclass, when you meet the Web Wardens. Feats on the hand come in very irregularly. It might take several level-ups before a character might be able to consider the Webbery Warding feat.

Definitely the mega-feats are worse than smaller but much more frequent feats for this purpose.

I have to say that even in 3e we've always felt that feats per PC were too few. I've house ruled in the past that PC would get a feat every 2 levels, but maybe I should have even tried 1/level (then the problem in 3e became that the Fighter was devalued). This problem became especially clear in settings such as Rokugan where characters join a variety of schools or dojos that can provide tons of secret lore via feats, but the PCs have only a few to take.